major panic attacks today downtown – clonazepam panic attack not like Xanax – feels like brain damage, blood pressure feeling going up and down, tectonic plates in the head, impending seizure… only one thing I could do – take a 1.2 (o.5) Rivotril and a Xanax – terrifying stuff – had to hid in pipe room of building; 3 hours later I need another fix…  my withdrawal seems to have gotten worse last week, i see my doc. tomorrow – I pray for instruction WHEN to take drugs, WHAT kind of drugs and DOSE of drugs – maybe a referral. one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like out of control terrorized thing. Squiggles

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> major panic attacks today downtown – clonazepam > panic attack not like Xanax – feels like brain damage, > blood pressure feeling going up and down, tectonic > plates in the head, impending seizure… only one > thing I could do – take a 1.2 (o.5) Rivotril and a > Xanax – terrifying stuff – had to hid in pipe room of > building; > 3 hours later I need another fix…  my withdrawal > seems to have gotten worse last week, i see my doc. > tomorrow – I pray for instruction WHEN to take drugs, > WHAT kind of drugs and DOSE of drugs – maybe a referral.

Oh Squiggles that sounds just awful.. > one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – > better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like > out of control terrorized thing.

hey..whatever gets you through the night (((((((((((Squiggles))))))))))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Squiggles

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> Oh Squiggles that sounds just awful.. > one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – > better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like > out of control terrorized thing. > hey..whatever gets you through the night > (((((((((((Squiggles))))))))))) > Squiggles

thanks Bob – I wish I were normal I can’t show my face in public without anticipation of the next moment.  I came home crying – felt like i had just been through a hold-up, a rape, and a storm – stress wise. tx a lot. Squiggles

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Oh Squiggles that sounds just awful.. > > one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – > > better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like > > out of control terrorized thing. > hey..whatever gets you through the night > (((((((((((Squiggles))))))))))) > > Squiggles > thanks Bob – I wish I were normal > I can’t show my face in public without > anticipation of the next moment.

thats sort of saps away away you the fear and anxiety of it happening suddenly again..  I came > home crying – felt like i had just been > through a hold-up, a rape, and a storm – stress wise.

awful.. It happens to more "normal " people than you think though.. are you maybe overdoing it a bit fighting it? sounds corny I know but peaceful music ..a few aromatherapy candles and a safe undisturbed place can help a lot.. Sort of creating your own hiding place rather than pipe rooms.. just my maybe innaproriate 2c.. Im sure wiser and more experienced heads than mine on the board will have some advice for you.. Im just rooting  for you and wish you the best.. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> tx a lot. > Squiggles

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Bob, I appreciate your kind words – it’s true letting go helps relieve the anxiety – i am exhausted from it and it in itself adds to the illness, strangely. music – good idea – don’t know about aromatic candles, they would have to compete with my husband toiletry LOL! will try music – yup ! Squiggles

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: major panic attacks today downtown – clonazepam : panic attack not like Xanax – feels like brain damage, : blood pressure feeling going up and down, tectonic : plates in the head, impending seizure… only one : thing I could do – take a 1.2 (o.5) Rivotril and a : Xanax – terrifying stuff – had to hid in pipe room of : building; : : 3 hours later I need another fix…  my withdrawal : seems to have gotten worse last week, i see my doc. : tomorrow – I pray for instruction WHEN to take drugs, : WHAT kind of drugs and DOSE of drugs – maybe a referral. : : one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – : better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like : out of control terrorized thing. : Hey Squiggles, Too bad about that mess. Hope things are better. Hopefully soon you can get that direction on the meds, but until then, do what you have to do. You must feel fatigued.

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> Hey Squiggles, > Too bad about that mess. Hope things are better. > Hopefully soon you can get that direction on the meds, but until then, do > what you have to do. You must feel fatigued.

thank you Mojo – it’s all so external – i don’t understand what is hsppening to me – my mouth is full of salt – at least my doc had me on 1.0 K before w/d which i did not adjust to like the Xaxax – maybe depression IS physical. thank you S

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I came >> home crying – felt like i had just been >> through a hold-up, a rape, and a storm – stress wise. > Um…I have you blocked right now Squiggles but a few things get thru because > when people reply to you, your replies show up in my newsreader. It sounds to > me as if you have a quite severe anxiety disorder there. Have you ever > considered just giving in and going back on Klonopin? Klonopin is extremely > effective for panic disorder, as you well know. > Im just wondering if this would all be happening if you were on Klonopin again. > It does you no good to deny you have a problem with panic. Its nothing > shameful, it really isnt. > I feel sorry for you sometimes. > Eric

Thanks Eric, that is what I intend to suggest with my doc tomorrow, whom I think will in all probability agree – I am afraid of drugs – the Xanax w/d worked  but the Rivotril, for some reason is getting worse – and the panic attack is ugly. You are sweet to write to me my doctor btw is Jewish LOL Squiggles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> major panic attacks today downtown – clonazepam > panic attack not like Xanax – feels like brain damage, > blood pressure feeling going up and down, tectonic > plates in the head, impending seizure… only one > thing I could do – take a 1.2 (o.5) Rivotril and a > Xanax – terrifying stuff – had to hid in pipe room of > building; > So sorry..must be ghastly for you to go anywhere.. > I was well on my way to the Panic of all panic attacks friday morning. It > was awful..I felt like i was going to have a heart attack the way I was > going. > I was SAVED from my fate.. and having to take the benzo’s > by Eki suggestion about the alternate nostril breathing   and my trying > it…and IT WORKED.. > did it a couple of times every hour and before long  all my feelings of > panic that had been escalating went away,  totally and completely. > Heres the site..on alternate nostril breathing.. > http://www.holisticonline.com/Yoga/hol_yoga_breathing-ex-nadisodh.htm. >  And another…for victorious breathing exercises.. > http://www.holisticonline.com/Yoga/hol_yoga_breathing-ujjai.htm > Best thing about these   is they can be done anywhere, anytime.. > Totally worked for me…. > ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Squiggles)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Very kind of you C’Ella – alternate nostril hmmm – will read that – i think that the clonazepam withdrawal is a unique epileptoid type – yeach! thank you for thinking of me. Squiggles

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> major panic attacks today downtown – clonazepam > panic attack not like Xanax – feels like brain damage, > blood pressure feeling going up and down, tectonic > plates in the head, impending seizure… only one > thing I could do – take a 1.2 (o.5) Rivotril and a > Xanax – terrifying stuff – had to hid in pipe room of > building; > 3 hours later I need another fix…  my withdrawal > seems to have gotten worse last week, i see my doc. > tomorrow – I pray for instruction WHEN to take drugs, > WHAT kind of drugs and DOSE of drugs – maybe a referral. > one thing is sure about psychiatric emergencies – > better to be stoned like a vegetable than flying like > out of control terrorized thing. > Squiggles

That exactly what I say and feel about that.  Why are you the only other person in Canada that agrees with me.  I hope you are going to be ok, Squiggles.  I’m like one of those terrified looking cats in the SPCA that gets ‘put down’ from being left in a terrorized state.  After a while no one wants you.  I rather be a stoned out until an answer was found.  Bless you. Carrie

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> That exactly what I say and feel about that.  Why are you the only other > person in Canada that agrees with me.  I hope you are going to be ok, > Squiggles.  I’m like one of those terrified looking cats in the SPCA that > gets ‘put down’ from being left in a terrorized state.  After a while no one > wants you.  I rather be a stoned out until an answer was found.  Bless you. > Carrie

LOL – yeah I know the one you mean – the scruffy tabby with a calico tail, and rather large ears and polydactyl paws, with the black spot on the forehead saying "scratch me"; yeah I volunteered at the SPCA and I know the ones – the kind I adopt. – will feel you in on my doc appt/ later S

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> I’m tired…

 I am about 20 replies behind on this.    I really cannot go beyond what others have replied to you so far, Summer. Others have sent you some great advice, some beautiful words of encouragement, some old fasioned support and a lot of heart. You are much loved here, Summer.  For what it is worth. -Joe D.  off the smokes since 03 Oct 2001

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In alt.support.stop-smoking, on 10 Dec 2001, Summer announced: > I’m sorry to unload guys especially when it is so damn > OT…but I’m feeling about ready to burst right now and am > not too sure what to do about it.

Smile! You’re a very nice person, and your problems will work themselves out without the help of your worrying about them.  I know that worrying *seems* to accomplish so much, but really it doesn’t – all it does is make you sad, and that’s no good Keep your head up – You’ve quit smoking for over 2 Months!   That’s a fantastic effort – do you know how many people can do that?  Think of all the people you know, and know that you have done something most of them would not have the strength and courage to do.  You really are a special person, and your loved ones still love you and miss you too! Regards OgO — my Quitting smoking page: http://qjc.cjb.net/quit.html Quit Stats home page: http://qjc.cjb.net/quitstats.html  -=- Current version 0.9.4 – released 07/12/2001 -=- I left my Glasses in my email – you better take them out! wun – 3QOF+ – f3as3 – asdfg (ok, I made that last one up Since 1/01/01 at 10:31:05 AM, OgO has not smoked for: 11 months, 1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes and 53 seconds.  6,865 cigarettes not smoked, $1,922.23 saved, life saved 3W 2D 20:05:38.

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> > >Listen to your AS3 friends, give yourself a BOOT in the > > ass and move on. > BTW Summer, make that a soft boot, no steel toes; just enough > to change your current funk!

Well geez!!!  You could have told me that earlier!!  ;) > > Tomorrow will be better… > promise? > Yes, I Bob S. promise that Summer will have a better day tomorrow.

So far, not too bad.  Not great, but not what I was feeling yesterday. — Cheers Summer 2M+ — "It will not last…" — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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> I wish I could wave a magic wand and make everything better.   Just know > that you are NOT alone…..you will always have friends here.

Thank you Chris.  :)  I’d feel better if you passed along some of those M&Ms.  ;) Seriously though…I am feeling better today. — Cheers Summer 2M+ — "It will not last…" — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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I wish I could wave a magic wand and make everything better.   Just know that you are NOT alone…..you will always have friends here. Chris 1M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m tired… >…of feeling like I am stuck in quicksand and sinking lower by the moment. >…of looking at my bank account and seeing that no, the debt hasn’t >magically disappeared. >…of working my butt off and finding that at the end of the day, I can’t >find a reason for doing it. >…of looking in the mirror and feeling powerless to change what looks back >at me. >…of feeling like there is something missing in my life and not knowing >what it is. >…of being angry at anyone and everyone for no apparent reason. >…of being separated from everyone I love. >…of being lonely 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. >…of pretending to be strong in the face of addiction when really, I am >not. >…feeling so totally unlovable. >But more than anything, I’m so tired of not knowing what to do to make >myself feel better.  It feels completely useless.  I don’t know how to even >begin to improve my emotional and psychological well-being right now.  All I >know is I am sick and tired of hating everything about myself. >I’m sorry to unload guys especially when it is so damn OT…but I’m feeling >about ready to burst right now and am not too sure what to do about it. >– >Cheers >Summer >2M+ >– >Please don’t forget to take out the trash! >– >Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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Summer, I’m sorry to say that I had to take reading your post and the replies to it in three separate sittings.  You probably don’t realize how much you mean to your fellow AS3 Quit Buddies.  The reason it took me three different sittings to get through the posts was because it just tore me up.  My heart hurt, my eyes burned and my throat has this huge lump in it that won’t go away even now.  And I am not depressed, nor having a bad patch right now, and while I may be able to blame the Wellbutrin or the DTs of withdrawal for the tears they are not why I hurt so badly for you when reading your post. I hurt because I have experienced those same feelings many years ago, so I DO know how it feels, and because you are so important to all of us here we don’t want you to hurt like that.  "We feel your pain" is not an empty, meaningless cliche in this newsgroup.  Maybe you will be convinced, from all of these heartfelt replies, from all of these caring people that you ARE very important to all of us.  You are certainly not alone. ***GREAT BIG HUG*** from BinnieBee

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m tired… > …of feeling like I am stuck in quicksand and sinking lower by the moment. > …of looking at my bank account and seeing that no, the debt hasn’t > magically disappeared. > …of working my butt off and finding that at the end of the day, I can’t > find a reason for doing it. > …of looking in the mirror and feeling powerless to change what looks back > at me. > …of feeling like there is something missing in my life and not knowing > what it is. > …of being angry at anyone and everyone for no apparent reason. > …of being separated from everyone I love. > …of being lonely 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. > …of pretending to be strong in the face of addiction when really, I am > not. > …feeling so totally unlovable. > But more than anything, I’m so tired of not knowing what to do to make > myself feel better.  It feels completely useless.  I don’t know how to even > begin to improve my emotional and psychological well-being right now.  All I > know is I am sick and tired of hating everything about myself. > I’m sorry to unload guys especially when it is so damn OT…but I’m feeling > about ready to burst right now and am not too sure what to do about it. > — > Cheers > Summer > 2M+ > — > Please don’t forget to take out the trash! > — > Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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> I’m tired… > …of feeling like I am stuck in quicksand and sinking lower > by the moment.

Summer, have you forgotten so soon how sick you were not so long ago?? Geez girl- people have died of pneumonia, and you want not only a speedy recovery, but all the positive energy and enthusiasm of a person who was never ill! Give yourself a break for cripes sake!! LOL! You are a hard task master……Father ill, very far from home, Why aren’t you bright and bubbly!!! Bad girl Stop being so hard on my friend hugs, Georgie — f3as3

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> I’m sorry to unload guys especially when it is so damn OT…but I’m feeling > about ready to burst right now and am not too sure what to do about it.

Unloading on us is no problem, Summer….and it’s a start.  Have you thought about getting professional help?  A counselor of some sort?  Talking helps but you may need more than that.  And if you’re like me…who used to hate  the idea of taking anything for depression…you’ll back away from the idea.  But if I get to that point again during my quit, I won’t hesitate for a second to get professional help.  Hope things improve for you….take care. Hugs.. Sally — 2m 2w 4d 16:12 smoke-free, 2,388 cigs not smoked, $559.99 saved for whatever I want to spend it on, 1w 1d 7:00 life saved – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Cheers > Summer > 2M+ > — > Please don’t forget to take out the trash! > — > Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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I felt the same way, just a few years ago, and still do sometimes, although rarely.  There is a lot of stuff going on when you quit smoking, and problems that seemed manageable before often seem less so after you quit, and some thins just seem overwhelming.  At just over 2 months you are probably just beginning to get over normal "quit depression".  This should fade over the next month or so and you will probably begin to feel more positive.  If you feel there is an organic cause for your "moodiness", then please see a doctor and get help. Meanwhile, there are things you can do to make things better. Here are a few things I used to regain control of my life: … get some exercise.  It really helps your mindset, relieves stress, and actually builds up the parts of your brain that fight depression. If you can’t afford a gym, then brisk walking or aerobics to a video at home could be wonderful … get control of your finances.  I started using Quicken this January, initially just to balance my checkbook, but eventually I was able to budget effectively and pay down many of my bills. Since I got married this year, and have had a number of major expenses (such as a new fence) I still have a lot of debt, but at least I can use the software to plan for the future, knowing just where Eddie and I stand.  And I find myself spending more carefully when I know it’s going to be saved for posterity on my computer.   … join a club.  Check the internet for people in your area who are meeting about something you care about.  Do you care about the environment?  There are Sierra Club chapters all over the place, and they offer hikes and field trips for little to no cost.  Do you like reading?  Check out the local library for book clubs.  Perhaps you could volunteer at local charities. They have a lot of volunteers around the holidays, but the rest of the year they need all they can get. … most importantly. Recognize that you are not unlovable, weak, or powerless.  YOU control your life.  Nobody who can fight this addiction as long as you have can consider themselves weak.  And the only people who are unlovable are those who are not willing to allow themselves to be loved.  Make an assessment of what you HAVE.  Don’t let yourself be distracted into thinking about what you don’t have, at least not for a few minutes.  Just list what you have, and don’t judge the value of it.  Then look at your list and think about how hard you’ve worked to have what you do have, and how you would like to change that list, and what you could do to change it. You don’t have to do it all at once, just think about what you COULD do.  Knowing that there are options can make a lot of difference.   It will get better.   Diane M.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m tired… > …of feeling like I am stuck in quicksand and sinking lower by the moment. > …of looking at my bank account and seeing that no, the debt hasn’t > magically disappeared. > …of working my butt off and finding that at the end of the day, I can’t > find a reason for doing it. > …of looking in the mirror and feeling powerless to change what looks back > at me. > …of feeling like there is something missing in my life and not knowing > what it is. > …of being angry at anyone and everyone for no apparent reason. > …of being separated from everyone I love. > …of being lonely 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. > …of pretending to be strong in the face of addiction when really, I am > not. > …feeling so totally unlovable. > But more than anything, I’m so tired of not knowing what to do to make > myself feel better.  It feels completely useless.  I don’t know how to even > begin to improve my emotional and psychological well-being right now.  All I > know is I am sick and tired of hating everything about myself. > I’m sorry to unload guys especially when it is so damn OT…but I’m feeling > about ready to burst right now and am not too sure what to do about it. > — > Cheers > Summer > 2M+ > — > Please don’t forget to take out the trash! > — > Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

Response:

>Listen to your AS3 friends, give yourself a BOOT in the > ass and move on.

BTW Summer, make that a soft boot, no steel toes; just enough to change your current funk! > Tomorrow will be better… > promise?

Yes, I Bob S. promise that Summer will have a better day tomorrow. cheers Bob S. 1M+

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<big snip> >Listen to your AS3 friends, give yourself a BOOT in the > ass and move on.

Yes sir!  :) > Tomorrow will be better…

promise? Thank you for this Bob.  The wakeup call was much needed. — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

Response:

>Well,  to be honest, I’m not entirely sure I WANT to be seeing this portion >of my life more clearly if it means feeling like the greatest hurdle in the >world is simply getting out of bed.  I slept until 5:30 this afternoon >because I didn’t want to get out of bed.  That’s not normal.

Awwww, but it’s not going to be possible to fix this if you don’t see it’s there.  That’s all I meant.  Sounds like you’re very depressed, to me > You’re used to buffering your emotional landscape with lots of nicotine, >and > you’re not doing that anymore.  It really CAN feel pretty wretchedly > overwhelming for a while, and the answer as to what to do about all of >these > things is different for each individual. >Well shit, all I want is a clear cut solution.  Skip the crap and someone >tell me the magic cure to make it go away.  It’ll drive me to the looney bin >soon.  I could probably deal with being down all the time, but that’s not >the case.  These "yo-yo emotions" I’m having are making me lose my mind.  I >won’t be sane much longer if I don’t figure out how to reign them in.

Oh, God… I remember this phase.  It feels like you’re losing you mind, doesn’t it?  I can’t tell you much except that your neurological self is probably all out of kilter right now, so try very hard to keep remembering that when you’re feeling way out on that edge.  And repeat after me… it does NOT last.   I had the raving loonies pretty bad too (some will say I still do) but eventually I learned how to deal with the flood of stuff that I was hit with. It isn’t easy but it’s critical that you give yourself plenty of latitude to get through this phase.  Also, know that you are GRIEVING for your old "buddy".  This is normal. God, what helped me?  The support of this group, herbals (kava kava, valerian, chamomile, vitamin b complex), accepting that this was a part of the process, painful though it was, and reaffirming my committment each day to learning how to live comfortably in a non-smoking lifestyle.  Accepting that I couldn’t do everything I wanted to do all at once, that I had to wean myself much more slowly off the patch than I originally planned.  And talking, talking, talking to my quit buddies in chat about what was going on… laughter, staying diverted.  Finally accepting fully that I was really serious about doing this. Last but not least, anti-depressants.  I’d be writing this post with a cigarette in my hand if it weren’t for those.   > This probably won’t mean much to you now, but sometimes just being able to > determine where some of the problems are in your life is a major feat in >and of > itself. >I know where a lot of my problems are.  But they are not problems that can >be easily solved….debt, distance from family and friends.  :(

Then determine which ones you can tackle, and tackle those.  If you feel like it.  And give yourself latitude to say, "fuck it all right now" and not do anything if you don’t want.  Accept the things you can’t change for now and, perhaps more importantly, try not to put too much pressure on yourself for the things you can’t help.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All I can offer you is a bit of counsel to take it easy on yourself, > give yourself LOTS of latitude for learning new things, trying out new >thought > processes, doing things differently.  Cut yourself plenty of slack, and >take > good care of yourself right now.  Never forget the size and scope of the >task > you’ve undertaken, and how proud of yourself you ought to be for all the >work > you’ve done. >Thanks Elle.  I’ll take all the support I can get.  Like I said, it comes >and goes.  I think a lot of people in here have probably already figured >that out as, more often than not, I’m in a good mood and cracking my usual >bad jokes.

Hey, we all need to vent now and then.  No one is happy all the time, and it’s important to have this group here as an outlet for those less than perfect, not so comfy feelings.   Hugs, Elle

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> >Well,  to be honest, I’m not entirely sure I WANT to be seeing this portion >of my life more clearly if it means feeling like the greatest hurdle in the >world is simply getting out of bed.  I slept until 5:30 this afternoon >because I didn’t want to get out of bed.  That’s not normal. > Awwww, but it’s not going to be possible to fix this if you don’t see it’s > there.  That’s all I meant.  Sounds like you’re very depressed, to me

I see it…I’d just prefer not to.  Make sense? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> You’re used to buffering your emotional landscape with lots of nicotine, >and >> you’re not doing that anymore.  It really CAN feel pretty wretchedly >> overwhelming for a while, and the answer as to what to do about all of >these >> things is different for each individual. >Well shit, all I want is a clear cut solution.  Skip the crap and someone >tell me the magic cure to make it go away.  It’ll drive me to the looney bin >soon.  I could probably deal with being down all the time, but that’s not >the case.  These "yo-yo emotions" I’m having are making me lose my mind. I >won’t be sane much longer if I don’t figure out how to reign them in. > Oh, God… I remember this phase.  It feels like you’re losing you mind, > doesn’t it?  I can’t tell you much except that your neurological self is > probably all out of kilter right now, so try very hard to keep remembering that > when you’re feeling way out on that edge.  And repeat after me… it does NOT > last.

"It will not last….it will not last….it will not last."  my new mantra! > I had the raving loonies pretty bad too (some will say I still do) but > eventually I learned how to deal with the flood of stuff that I was hit with. > It isn’t easy but it’s critical that you give yourself plenty of latitude to > get through this phase.  Also, know that you are GRIEVING for your old "buddy". >  This is normal.

It would be nice if this all just disappeared wouldn’t it?  But I know in reality that will never happen.  So these shitty feelings will stick around until I take my head out of my ass and do something about them, right? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> God, what helped me?  The support of this group, herbals (kava kava, valerian, > chamomile, vitamin b complex), accepting that this was a part of the process, > painful though it was, and reaffirming my committment each day to learning how > to live comfortably in a non-smoking lifestyle.  Accepting that I couldn’t do > everything I wanted to do all at once, that I had to wean myself much more > slowly off the patch than I originally planned.  And talking, talking, talking > to my quit buddies in chat about what was going on… laughter, staying > diverted.  Finally accepting fully that I was really serious about doing this. > Last but not least, anti-depressants.  I’d be writing this post with a > cigarette in my hand if it weren’t for those.

That all sounds good to me except for the bit about the anti-depressants. I’m not keen on taking drugs.  I’d prefer a herbal route if at all possible. But if the drugs are what will do it, then I guess giving it a try couldn’t hurt.  I did zyban for the first month and a bit and it made me a raving looney.  I can’t deal with that again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> This probably won’t mean much to you now, but sometimes just being able to >> determine where some of the problems are in your life is a major feat in >and of >> itself. >I know where a lot of my problems are.  But they are not problems that can >be easily solved….debt, distance from family and friends.  :( > Then determine which ones you can tackle, and tackle those.  If you feel like > it.  And give yourself latitude to say, "fuck it all right now" and not do > anything if you don’t want.  Accept the things you can’t change for now and, > perhaps more importantly, try not to put too much pressure on yourself for the > things you can’t help.

God, that is so much easier said than done isn’t it?  There is some genetic wiring in human DNA that makes us blame ourselves for everything going wrong in our lives, whether we have the ability to change it or not.  So to my new "it will not last" mantra I should add "ODAT – One debt at a time".  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> All I can offer you is a bit of counsel to take it easy on yourself, >> give yourself LOTS of latitude for learning new things, trying out new >thought >> processes, doing things differently.  Cut yourself plenty of slack, and >take >> good care of yourself right now.  Never forget the size and scope of the >task >> you’ve undertaken, and how proud of yourself you ought to be for all the >work >> you’ve done. >Thanks Elle.  I’ll take all the support I can get.  Like I said, it comes >and goes.  I think a lot of people in here have probably already figured >that out as, more often than not, I’m in a good mood and cracking my usual >bad jokes. > Hey, we all need to vent now and then.  No one is happy all the time, and it’s > important to have this group here as an outlet for those less than perfect, not > so comfy feelings.

And it’s amazing how it always IS here.  There always seems to be someone online at any given time…the beauty of having us scattered throughout the globe. Thanks again Elle.  I’ll give both your posts another re-read tomorrow when I am feeling a little more like myself.  They’ll have much more of an impact then.  I know they will. — Cheers Summer 2M+ — "It will not last…" — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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Edna, I have no idea how to reply to this post.  I sit here starring dumbfounded at the screen with tears running down my face.  Thank you for saying absolutely everything I needed to hear but couldn’t say to myself.  I do need to find a way to deal with these feelings.  They were around long before I quit (although they intensified after I did) and I have never really done anything to deal with them. Thank you so much Edna.  You’re a gem.  :) — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is not OT.  This is a bad patch.  The sort of bad patch you probably > used to rely on your addiction to help you ignore/slide through/repress. > You don’t have your addiction anymore.  <insert pat on back here>  So you > don’t quite know what to do. > OF COURSE you don’t know where to start to make yourself feel better. NONE > of us addicts jumped right in with efficient mood-management when we put > down the smokes.  (Or virtually none.  There may be a couple of freakishly > well-adjusted quitters out there who had no emotional problems when they > quit.  Fuck ‘em, that’s what I say.) > Number one:  Do NOT put yourself down for not intuitively, spontaneously > having all sorts of non-smoking skills.  That’s why we’re here — maybe > somebody here can HELP you learn these new skills.  And when you do, trust > me, you’re going to love it. > Number two:  DO congratulate yourself for getting this far, and DO promise > yourself you’ll take it easy on yourself and stop criticizing yourself. You > DESERVE a break — especially from yourself  :-) > Number three:  Just try to have a little faith, and start practicing. Here > are some ideas that helped me: > Laugh.  When it got bad for me sometimes, I would post a "joke alert" here > on as3, and my fellow quitters would inundate me with jokes.  Laughter is a > great quit aid AND and great life skill. > Reward yourself.  It doesn’t have to cost money.  Just remember to practice > thinking of yourself as somebody who has achieved something really hard and > really good:  quitting smoking, and KNOW that you deserve an extra half hour > in the bubble bath, a walk in your favorite place at your favorite time of > day, to watch tv naked, to take a nap — whatever it is you would enjoy. > You don’t need anybody else’s approval or understanding, just do it. > Read and post.  Read the posts of folks in day 2 or 3, and realize how much > you have to offer these suffering souls, learn how much you have to give, > and practice giving. > Exercise. > Smile. > Get with people. > Take up a new hobby. > Pursue an old dream. > Fantasize in your journal. > And hang in there.  It will get better. > You are not powerless.  You have quit smoking for two months, and that is > the most powerful demonstration of self-rule I know of. > ep dof > I’m tired…

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> I’m tired…

Hi Summer, the only thing I can think about the funk your in is this: – when you don’t smoke, you have more time to observe yourself – you know from prior life experience that you can not address all your problems at once; not smoking is a big one.  you are changing your lifestyle. – make note of other things that are important to you and address them when the time is right.  Use your success from not smoking to feed future goals. – you are in a different country and not at home but you are not alone.  Listen to your AS3 friends, give yourself a BOOT in the ass and move on. Tomorrow will be better… cheers Bob S. 1M+

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> > I’m tired… > …of feeling like there is something missing in my life and not knowing > what it is. > Quitting smoking doesn’t magically make you a perfect person with a perfect > life.  In fact most people find all hell breaks loose.

And yes, it certainly has. > What you are missing > is cigarettes, no point in denying it.  Just because you’ve decided to quit, > want to quit, never want to smoke another of the filthy things, doesn’t mean > you won’t miss them.  Don’t worry, that too shall pass.

Yes, I am missing the smokes.  Not the foul taste or the smell or their ability to kill me, but just their presence.  Very odd to explain, but I’m sure many know what I am trying to say. But it’s more than just the smokes.  It’s something so much more than that. I just can’t put my fingure on it. > …of pretending to be strong in the face of addiction when really, I am > not. > That requires a fine balancing act.  Acting happy can only carry you so

far. And I’ve almost perfected wearing that mask. > Never be ashamed to ask for help.

Easier said than done.  Raised in a home where it was made clear that showing weekness was not an option (indirectly taught this by my parents’ example).  And I don’t know *how* to ask for help with this.  If I hurt myself or couldn’t find the answer to something, I would know how to ask. But I don’t know what I am asking for…so it complicated matters a little. > Two months is great, but believe me > things get a lot easier after two years. )

You have no idea how much stock I am placing on that Dawn.  :) > But more than anything, I’m so tired of not knowing what to do to make > myself feel better > Accept that this process is going to take time.  Believe all the old folks > around here who keep promising "It gets better.  Much better."  No one can > tell you when.  But it will.

I do believe you…most of the time.  But occaissionally when I get low like these something tells me you are all a bunch of lying fools (sorry)…even though I do know it will get easier. > Telephones bring you temporarily closer to those you miss.  You are saving > money.  Look at some old meters and see how those dollars really add up. > Spend a little of it on something that will bring you pleasure (for me it > was some plants with blue flowers – you’ll see me referring to my Lithodora > now and then).

<snip> I would but then I fear I would be initiating this low point again because of spending money that rightfully should have been sent back home to pay off my debt.  Ugh…I’m sick of this crap. Thanks for this post Dawn.  When I re-read it tomorrow, I know it will sink in more.  I’m still feeling pretty shitty at the moment so sadly, not much of this is making it’s way in.  Thanks for the support Dawn, as usual, you have help to offer. — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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> Sounds like you are having a pretty tough time…I can’t help but think it > has a great deal to do with being so far away from your family and loved > ones during the holiday season, and being in a country where (I imagine) > there’s not a great deal of Christmas celebration going on, anyway.

Most definitely it is.  That is a large portion of it although not it entirely. > As for working your butt off and not finding a reason for doing it, but I > can’t help but remember someone saying, "There is an incredible feeling of > accomplishment when your children look at you and understand what you are > saying."

OMG thank you Ziggy.  Thank you for remembering that and for reposting it back to me.  I guess I needed to hear my own words.  AS3 and the weedkillers are blessed to have you Ziggy.  Thank you thank you.  :) > You do make a difference, and we have appreciated having you here among our > numbers.

Thank you Ziggy, but this place is one of the few things keeping me sane at the moment.  Everyone here has become a substitue family for me and I can’t imagine doing anything to jeopardize that. > I hope you feel stronger today. But if you don’t, keep talking….we’ll > listen.

Thanks Ziggy.  Comes and goes.  I may be feeling great tomorrow and low the next.  Bear with me.  :) — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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> Hey girlie, Elle gave you a far better answer than I could so I’ll just add > a hug for ya (((((((((Summer))))))))

Thank you Padders.  I needed that. > Take care chuck we don’t want to lose you here

Oh, you won’t be losing me.  On top of all the other shit I’m feeling…I don’t want to add guilt for failing on top of that.  No thanks.  :) — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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> {{{{Summer}}}}

Thanks Elle.  :) > This may not be as OT as you say.  Many times quitting helps us begin to see > more clearly all the other places where we’re having trouble in our lives.

Well,  to be honest, I’m not entirely sure I WANT to be seeing this portion of my life more clearly if it means feeling like the greatest hurdle in the world is simply getting out of bed.  I slept until 5:30 this afternoon because I didn’t want to get out of bed.  That’s not normal. > You’re used to buffering your emotional landscape with lots of nicotine, and > you’re not doing that anymore.  It really CAN feel pretty wretchedly > overwhelming for a while, and the answer as to what to do about all of these > things is different for each individual.

Well shit, all I want is a clear cut solution.  Skip the crap and someone tell me the magic cure to make it go away.  It’ll drive me to the looney bin soon.  I could probably deal with being down all the time, but that’s not the case.  These "yo-yo emotions" I’m having are making me lose my mind.  I won’t be sane much longer if I don’t figure out how to reign them in. > This probably won’t mean much to you now, but sometimes just being able to > determine where some of the problems are in your life is a major feat in and of > itself.

I know where a lot of my problems are.  But they are not problems that can be easily solved….debt, distance from family and friends.  :( > All I can offer you is a bit of counsel to take it easy on yourself, > give yourself LOTS of latitude for learning new things, trying out new thought > processes, doing things differently.  Cut yourself plenty of slack, and take > good care of yourself right now.  Never forget the size and scope of the task > you’ve undertaken, and how proud of yourself you ought to be for all the work > you’ve done.

Thanks Elle.  I’ll take all the support I can get.  Like I said, it comes and goes.  I think a lot of people in here have probably already figured that out as, more often than not, I’m in a good mood and cracking my usual bad jokes. > Hang in there, Summer… I hope you feel better soon.

Thank you Elle.  I’m hanging.  :) — Cheers Summer 2M+ — Please don’t forget to take out the trash! — Summer’s Soundbytes  http://www.geocities.com/summer_soundbytes/index.html

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This is not OT.  This is a bad patch.  The sort of bad patch you probably used to rely on your addiction to help you ignore/slide through/repress. You don’t have your addiction anymore.  <insert pat on back here>  So you don’t quite know what to do. OF COURSE you don’t know where to start to make yourself feel better.  NONE of us addicts jumped right in with efficient mood-management when we put down the smokes.  (Or virtually none.  There may be a couple of freakishly well-adjusted quitters out there who had no emotional problems when they quit.  Fuck ‘em, that’s what I say.) Number one:  Do NOT put yourself down for not intuitively, spontaneously having all sorts of non-smoking skills.  That’s why we’re here — maybe somebody here can HELP you learn these new skills.  And when you do, trust me, you’re going to love it. Number two:  DO congratulate yourself for getting this far, and DO promise yourself you’ll take it easy on yourself and stop criticizing yourself.  You DESERVE a break — especially from yourself  :-) Number three:  Just try to have a little faith, and start practicing.  Here are some ideas that helped me: Laugh.  When it got bad for me sometimes, I would post a "joke alert" here on as3, and my fellow quitters would inundate me with jokes.  Laughter is a great quit aid AND and great life skill. Reward yourself.  It doesn’t have to cost money.  Just remember to practice thinking of yourself as somebody who has achieved something really hard and really good:  quitting smoking, and KNOW that you deserve an extra half hour in the bubble bath, a walk in your favorite place at your favorite time of day, to watch tv naked, to take a nap — whatever it is you would enjoy. You don’t need anybody else’s approval or understanding, just do it. Read and post.  Read the posts of folks in day 2 or 3, and realize how much you have to offer these suffering souls, learn how much you have to give, and practice giving. Exercise. Smile. Get with people. Take up a new hobby. Pursue an old dream. Fantasize in your journal. And hang in there.  It will get better. You are not powerless.  You have quit smoking for two months, and that is the most powerful demonstration of self-rule I know of. ep dof

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m tired…

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> I’m tired… > …of feeling like there is something missing in my life and not knowing > what it is.

Quitting smoking doesn’t magically make you a perfect person with a perfect life.  In fact most people find all hell breaks loose.  What you are missing is cigarettes, no point in denying it.  Just because you’ve decided to quit, want to quit, never want to smoke another of the filthy things, doesn’t mean you won’t miss them.  Don’t worry, that too shall pass. > …of pretending to be strong in the face of addiction when really, I am > not.

That requires a fine balancing act.  Acting happy can only carry you so far. Never be ashamed to ask for help.  Two months is great, but believe me things get a lot easier after two years. ) > But more than anything, I’m so tired of not knowing what to do to make > myself feel better

Accept that this process is going to take time.  Believe all the old folks around here who keep promising "It gets better.  Much better."  No one can tell you when.  But it will. Telephones bring you temporarily closer to those you miss.  You are saving money.  Look at some old meters and see how those dollars really add up. Spend a little of it on something that will bring you pleasure (for me it was some plants with blue flowers – you’ll see me referring to my Lithodora now and then).  For you it may be a special plant, or a book or CD you really want, or an article of clothing that under ordinary circumstances you wouldn’t buy, an aromatherapy candle, a new toy for the cat – whatever will bring you pleasure whenever you look at it, and remind you that you would not have this if you hadn’t quit smoking.  And remember this is not a one time reward – you deserve another and another and another. Dawn Two years, two weeks, two days, 10 hours, 38 minutes and 50 seconds. 22423 cigarettes not smoked, saving $5,886.11.- lotsa moola eh? soon to be spent restoring my beloved ‘69 Volkswagen.   Life saved: 11 weeks, 20 hours, 35 minutes.

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Hey girlie, Elle gave you a far better answer than I could so I’ll just add a hug for ya (((((((((Summer)))))))) Take care chuck we don’t want to lose you here hugs padders (

> YEEESSSS!!! Alex, bless you many times over:) Oh, thank you! > Shovels, Donnah > Hi Donnah > Is this the picture your looking for? > http://barna.dns2go.com/friends/pass_colors.jpg

 Donna, since my e-mail reply bounced, you didn’t  read the story about the WTC flag.  The Navy had  requested that flag for the USS Abraham Lincoln.  After some talk back and forth between FDNY ("my  firefighters are guarding it with their lives")  and the Navy, the flag was given to the Navy and  has been replaced with a new one at WTC.

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Thank you so much, Joe, for the background info. I deeply appreciate it. I have enlarged the sketch and am copying it for the patriots in the office. Blessings, Donnah – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> YEEESSSS!!! Alex, bless you many times over:) Oh, thank you! > Shovels, Donnah >> Hi Donnah >> Is this the picture your looking for? >> http://barna.dns2go.com/friends/pass_colors.jpg >  Donna, since my e-mail reply bounced, you didn’t >  read the story about the WTC flag.  The Navy had >  requested that flag for the USS Abraham Lincoln. >  After some talk back and forth between FDNY ("my >  firefighters are guarding it with their lives") >  and the Navy, the flag was given to the Navy and >  has been replaced with a new one at WTC.

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YEEESSSS!!! Alex, bless you many times over:) Oh, thank you! Shovels, Donnah Looking for the Pony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Donnah > Is this the picture your looking for? > http://barna.dns2go.com/friends/pass_colors.jpg > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > Two words. And I really appreciate your looking for it! I had marked it > for printing later and forgot to do so before I shut down > ATT…..nothing like brain soup to mess you up. > The picture was a hand-drawn sketch,almost rough in appearance and so > very beautiful. Two unsung heroes….fireman to soldier. > Thanks again,Joe. I’m trying to remember what sites I had visited that > sleepless night. > Shovels, Donnah > Looking for the Pony > <SNIPPED>  :) > — >  Any information is included for informational >  or entertainment purposes only, >  No endorsement is implied or intended. > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn > * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> > * Medical Links,  Photo’s http://barna.dns2go.com/ > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> > * Don’t worry about life, > *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

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free trial. They were supposed to notify my buddies. Nuts… Were you able to find out anything about that picture? I want it badly:) Shovels, Donnah Looking for the Pony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Donnah wrote in reply to QuanYin9: > Ah Ha! a fellow Aquarius:) >  Donna, I’m not ignoring your e-mail.  I sent a >  reply and att bounced it back because you don’t >  exist.

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 Is that two words "pinkie flying"? > Were you able to find out anything about that picture? I want > it badly:)

 I haven’t heard from anyone, anyplace I put out feelers.  But I’ll keep trying….hang in there. … Firemen still use split lays.

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Two words. And I really appreciate your looking for it! I had marked it for printing later and forgot to do so before I shut down ATT…..nothing like brain soup to mess you up. The picture was a hand-drawn sketch,almost rough in appearance and so very beautiful. Two unsung heroes….fireman to soldier. Thanks again,Joe. I’m trying to remember what sites I had visited that sleepless night. Shovels, Donnah Looking for the Pony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  Is that two words "pinkie flying"? > Were you able to find out anything about that picture? I want > it badly:) >  I haven’t heard from anyone, anyplace I put out feelers. >  But I’ll keep trying….hang in there. > … Firemen still use split lays.

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Hi Donnah Is this the picture your looking for? http://barna.dns2go.com/friends/pass_colors.jpg GramPaHugs, Alex, > Two words. And I really appreciate your looking for it! I had marked it > for printing later and forgot to do so before I shut down > ATT…..nothing like brain soup to mess you up. > The picture was a hand-drawn sketch,almost rough in appearance and so > very beautiful. Two unsung heroes….fireman to soldier. > Thanks again,Joe. I’m trying to remember what sites I had visited that > sleepless night. > Shovels, Donnah > Looking for the Pony

<SNIPPED>  :) —  Any information is included for informational  or entertainment purposes only,  No endorsement is implied or intended. * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> * Medical Links,  Photo’s http://barna.dns2go.com/ * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> * Don’t worry about life, *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

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I came home to my secret sender box today.  I just love the strange way things connect up in this world.  It is foggy today in Santa Cruz.  I know I need to get my SAD light out.  I am missing the sun.  I open my box and I have a beautiful sun catcher that is actually a sun!  I am Aquarius-I need the sun and today I really need it and there it is! I also got two boxes of aromatherapy candles and a candle holder.  I am a happy camper! Thanks.   M

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Donnah wrote in reply to QuanYin9: > Ah Ha! a fellow Aquarius:)

 Donna, I’m not ignoring your e-mail.  I sent a  reply and att bounced it back because you don’t  exist.

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>I came home to my secret sender box today.  I just love the strange way things >connect up in this world.  It is foggy today in Santa Cruz.  I know I need to >get my SAD light out.  I am missing the sun.  I open my box and I have a >beautiful sun catcher that is actually a sun!  I am Aquarius-I need the sun and >today I really need it and there it is!

I’m thinking it’s time for a bay area minigimpfest. ` Mary – http://www.prado.com/~iris "We will not last and we know we will not — and we still write, carve, build, paint, and plant to last. We are, it seems to me, very, very brave." – Linda Ellerbee

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Ah Ha! a fellow Aquarius:) It took me over 50 years to "bloom" and I haven’t stopped yet….and I don’t intend to,either! Blessings,Donna Looking for the Pony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I came home to my secret sender box today.  I just love the strange way things > connect up in this world.  It is foggy today in Santa Cruz.  I know I need to > get my SAD light out.  I am missing the sun.  I open my box and I have a > beautiful sun catcher that is actually a sun!  I am Aquarius-I need the sun and > today I really need it and there it is! > I also got two boxes of aromatherapy candles and a candle holder.  I am a happy > camper! > Thanks. > M

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That doesn’t surprise me a bit.  It’s what I would have guessed-either aquarius or Sag. We really are sisters in spirit. M

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Kelly, I know one thing……. If you splurge on Victoria’s Secret "smelly" stuff. {the shower gel, lotion, body spray, powder, even candles and linen spray} You and your surroundings smell so damn good…you don’t wanna ruin it by smoking. Just a thought. Dianna – W

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>Kelly, I know one thing……. If you splurge on Victoria’s Secret "smelly" >stuff. {the shower gel, lotion, body spray, powder, even candles and linen >spray} You and your surroundings smell so damn good…you don’t wanna ruin it >by smoking.

Thanks for reminding me, Dianna!  My boyfriend gave me a VS catalog and told me to circle whatever I want for Xmas…….hehe Sally (let the good times roll) Two days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 50 seconds. 67 stinking cigs not smoked, saving a whopping $15.79 for chocolate. Life saved: 5 hours, 35 minutes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just a thought. >Dianna – W

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Kelly Asked and I quoted: >What I’m looking for is; >What is the Aroma Therapy Emotional Effect (or IS there one,) produced >on >my brain by the smell of the burning tobacco months after I’ve quit that >may induce me to want to smoke again? >Obviously it must be some sort of trigger, but I want more than just an >overall term. I want to know WHAT it touches to trigger my desire to >smoke. Any thoughts about it? >Kelly

Hi Kelly, I ponder the same question — I don’t have an answer for you, however this web site has an *interesting* list of chemical found in cigarettes.  How factual and actual is this list?  I do not know — Cleo http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/additives.html

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> Kelly maybe I can assist maybe not.

Thanks for trying. I agree that there is a Pavlovian response at work here. So many years of getting relief from nicotine cravings must create some sort of response in the pleasure centers. But… …there is something else at work here too. I never even heard of things such as ‘clary sage,’ ‘bergamot,’ or ‘ylang ylang before I was introduced to aroma therapy, (which I had never heard of either,) so there couldn’t be any of Pavlov’s responses when I burn them. But I DO get the expected emotional responses from them. I don’t know who the scientists are who research this sort of stuff, but I wish they would research the responses to tobacco. Native Americans used it in their religion without inhaling it. It must have been for the response that it caused in some other fashion…. Kelly Before you buy.

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Kelly, This may or may not help, but I can tell you, 4 Sundays+ into my quit (28 days, technically <g>), that a lit cigarette *still* smells good to me, and that seeing someone else smoke is a trigger. I think, in only my own personal experience, smelling a lit cig means that I am, in effect, "second-hand" smoking, and reinforcing my own addiction….i.e. my brain’s pleasure center may be stimulated by breathing second-hand smoke. So I’ve taken as many steps as I can to remove myself from smoke-filled environments, which is helping, for now. Went to an art festival this weekend (outdoors) and followed smokers, nearly salivating in their wake. Clearly, there’s some emotional or physical response (or possibly both) at work here <vbg>. I remember reading (quite awhile back, at least my long-term memory is still somewhat intact, but don’t ask me about 5 minutes ago!)  that heroin users in recovery were monitored while watching films of other users shooting up, and the brain’s pleasure centers of the recovering users were actually stimuated, so it doesn’t surprise me that watching others smoke is a trigger for me now. That’s when I try and think again of all the quite compelling reasons I’ve quit. But hey, this is just me, ya know? I do know that walking into my own smoke-free apartment, not smelling a stale smoke haze, is a wicked pleasure, as is burning candles of various scents. Just spent a fortune at Pier 1 in candles…such joy. Continued good luck with your quit, Carol

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It would be a gift for both!  :)  That stuff is so yummy!! Dianna 1W

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> Kelly, > Only God and the tabacco companies themselves know what fucking chemicals > they have found to put into tabacco to make us do this to ourselves!

That’s right, Michael. But soon, perhaps we ALL can know. And ‘knowing’ is the first step in doing something positive about it to help up in our quits. So, what are YOUR ideas about it? What are the emotional motivators that are stimulated when we smell burning tobacco? What ‘emotions’ are triggered? In the past, I’ve been using the word ‘trigger’ as if it’s an independent thing. It’s not. It’s linked to some kind of ‘bullet.’ THAT’S what I want to uncover; the bullet! That same bullet that has struck me down so damn many times before! Can we name that bullet, or does it have a different one for each of us? Kelly — Before you buy.

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Hope things get better for you Michael (I noticed you are a little testy today  :)  Please hang tight and post/rant all you need to! I can assure you from personal experience that all the misery you feel now is worth it a hundred times over. Sara OF

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been giving some thought to what keeps me smoking so long. What is > there about smoking that keeps bringing me back? It’s certainly not the > nicotine. That’s only a real problem during the first few weeks. There > seems to be some ‘emotional’ stuff tied to smoking that I don’t know > anything about. > Kelly, > Only God and the tabacco companies themselves know what fucking chemicals > they have found to put into tabacco to make us do this to ourselves! > Michael > 10/10/00

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Is this supposed to be a Christmas present for him or for you? <eg> Diane M.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks for reminding me, Dianna!  My boyfriend gave me a VS catalog > and told me to circle whatever I want for Xmas…….hehe > Sally (let the good times roll) > Two days, 5 hours, 52 minutes and 50 seconds. 67 stinking cigs not > smoked, saving a whopping $15.79 for chocolate. Life saved: 5 hours, > 35 minutes. >Just a thought. >Dianna – W

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=snip= > We are so used to dealing with things by smoking that we don’t even think > about it.  Give it time, and you WILL get past the "emotional" cravings. > Finding a replacement is a wonderful idea, and aromatherapy sounds perfect. > Congratulations on finding a solution. It gets better.

Thanks for your answer, Diane, and your supportive stance. But I think you may have missed my ‘real’ question. What I’m looking for is; What is the Aroma Therapy Emotional Effect (or IS there one,) produced on my brain by the smell of the burning tobacco months after I’ve quit that may induce me to want to smoke again? Obviously it must be some sort of trigger, but I want more than just an overall term. I want to know WHAT it touches to trigger my desire to smoke. Any thoughts about it? Kelly Before you buy.

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There are several addictions related to smoking.  Physical, psychological, and social.  All combine to make a powerful addiction.  Yes, the physical addiction is conquered in less than 2 months (assuming no NRT is used – a little longer if it is).  But the social and psychological addictions take a lot longer.  "Triggers" pop up constantly.  Initially, the cravings induced by triggers can easily be confused with the cravings from withdrawal, but after a few months, most of the common triggers have been faced down and are no longer potent.  But every so often, with decreasing frequency, another trigger will pop up.  These little (or sometimes not so little) triggers can be dangerous.   We are so used to dealing with things by smoking that we don’t even think about it.  Give it time, and you WILL get past the "emotional" cravings. Finding a replacement is a wonderful idea, and aromatherapy sounds perfect. Congratulations on finding a solution. It gets better. Diane M.  8M+/1Y+ (and btw, there is usually a vanill candle burning in my house – very soothing) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’ve been giving some thought to what keeps me smoking so long. What is > there about smoking that keeps bringing me back? It’s certainly not the > nicotine. That’s only a real problem during the first few weeks. There > seems to be some ‘emotional’ stuff tied to smoking that I don’t know > anything about. > I’ve been experimenting with ‘Aroma Therapy’ lately, and can actually > see and feel differences in my emotional makeup when  burning different > essential oils. Peppermint  or pine DOES make me feel energized. > Sandalwood IS relaxing, and so is lavender. Ylang ylang seems to soothe > me. So WHAT does the smell of tobacco do? Emotionally, that is. Right > now, trying to quit, it bothers me, but I think that is something else > again.  I know (from other quits) that in a couple of months I really > begin to miss smoking. So I wonder if there is some sort of emotional > response that is triggered by the essential oils in tobacco working > subconsciously on me? > — > There are plenty of businesses like show business. > Before you buy.

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I wish I could help with that, but I’m not a specialist in neurobiology.  I do know that smells have always triggered memories in me.  To this day, if I pass a man smoking the pipe tobacco my grandfather smoked I am instantly back in my grandfathers presence, even though he’s been dead 20 years.  Cinnamon and apple make me think of christmas and my mother’s apple streudel (to die for – paper thin crust).  The smell of ozone makes me think of warm summer rains.   I spoke in an earlier post about sometimes feeling nostalgic when I passed a smokler.  I suspect that the smell of cigarette smoke triggers memories based on how I’m feeling.  If I’m relaxed, then it’s a fond rememberance, of chats on porches and sitting and smoking while watching a sunset.  If I’m in a bad or weak mood, I remember the cravings and how easy it would be to slip. I don’t know where any of the triggers actually happen, any more than I know how my computer works.  In other words, I have a general idea, but no real details.  <g>  But it doens’t matter if I can just control them.   I admire your curiosity, though, and if you find an answer, please let me know.  :-) Diane M.     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > =snip= > We are so used to dealing with things by smoking that we don’t even > think > about it.  Give it time, and you WILL get past the "emotional" > cravings. > Finding a replacement is a wonderful idea, and aromatherapy sounds > perfect. > Congratulations on finding a solution. It gets better. > Thanks for your answer, Diane, and your supportive stance. But I think > you may have missed my ‘real’ question. > What I’m looking for is; > What is the Aroma Therapy Emotional Effect (or IS there one,) produced > on > my brain by the smell of the burning tobacco months after I’ve quit that > may induce me to want to smoke again? > Obviously it must be some sort of trigger, but I want more than just an > overall term. I want to know WHAT it touches to trigger my desire to > smoke. Any thoughts about it? > Kelly > Before you buy.

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Kelly maybe I can assist maybe not.  I don’t think anyone will be able to tell you which center in the brain is affected by the memory of burning tobacco.  You like many of you had smoked for an extended period of time, the pleasure center was affected by the reinforcement of the nicotine.  The memory of the relief from withdrawal is a positive reinforcement all alone.  That’s maybe one way of looking at it, or it could be pure Pavlov, example:  I have not smoked cannabis in over 17 years but, if I smell cannabis burning I start to salivate, which center in the brain is effected??? I don’t know I simply run like hell to get away from the smell. Bob W-Smober and Sober and Cannabis free – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > =snip= > We are so used to dealing with things by smoking that we don’t even > think > about it.  Give it time, and you WILL get past the "emotional" > cravings. > Finding a replacement is a wonderful idea, and aromatherapy sounds > perfect. > Congratulations on finding a solution. It gets better. > Thanks for your answer, Diane, and your supportive stance. But I think > you may have missed my ‘real’ question. > What I’m looking for is; > What is the Aroma Therapy Emotional Effect (or IS there one,) produced > on > my brain by the smell of the burning tobacco months after I’ve quit that > may induce me to want to smoke again? > Obviously it must be some sort of trigger, but I want more than just an > overall term. I want to know WHAT it touches to trigger my desire to > smoke. Any thoughts about it? > Kelly > Before you buy.

Response:

I’ve been giving some thought to what keeps me smoking so long. What is there about smoking that keeps bringing me back? It’s certainly not the nicotine. That’s only a real problem during the first few weeks. There seems to be some ‘emotional’ stuff tied to smoking that I don’t know anything about. I’ve been experimenting with ‘Aroma Therapy’ lately, and can actually see and feel differences in my emotional makeup when  burning different essential oils. Peppermint  or pine DOES make me feel energized. Sandalwood IS relaxing, and so is lavender. Ylang ylang seems to soothe me. So WHAT does the smell of tobacco do? Emotionally, that is. Right now, trying to quit, it bothers me, but I think that is something else again.  I know (from other quits) that in a couple of months I really begin to miss smoking. So I wonder if there is some sort of emotional response that is triggered by the essential oils in tobacco working subconsciously on me? — There are plenty of businesses like show business. Before you buy.

Response:

Kelly, It actually takes longer than a few weeks for the nicotine to clear out of your body. It takes at least 6 weeks for the nicotine to clear off of your neuro receptors…..which explains all the emotional crap we go through during a quit. Bren 2 1/2 M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been giving some thought to what keeps me smoking so long. What is > there about smoking that keeps bringing me back? It’s certainly not the > nicotine. That’s only a real problem during the first few weeks. There > seems to be some ‘emotional’ stuff tied to smoking that I don’t know > anything about. > I’ve been experimenting with ‘Aroma Therapy’ lately, and can actually > see and feel differences in my emotional makeup when  burning different > essential oils. Peppermint  or pine DOES make me feel energized. > Sandalwood IS relaxing, and so is lavender. Ylang ylang seems to soothe > me. So WHAT does the smell of tobacco do? Emotionally, that is. Right > now, trying to quit, it bothers me, but I think that is something else > again.  I know (from other quits) that in a couple of months I really > begin to miss smoking. So I wonder if there is some sort of emotional > response that is triggered by the essential oils in tobacco working > subconsciously on me? > — > There are plenty of businesses like show business. > Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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> I’ve been giving some thought to what keeps me smoking so long. What is > there about smoking that keeps bringing me back? It’s certainly not the > nicotine. That’s only a real problem during the first few weeks. There > seems to be some ‘emotional’ stuff tied to smoking that I don’t know > anything about.

Kelly, Only God and the tabacco companies themselves know what fucking chemicals they have found to put into tabacco to make us do this to ourselves! Michael 10/10/00

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AWESOME! I am so so happy, but would love to know more about this test. Please keep us posted! Sevi and the rest of the crew               http://www.cybercanine.com           "Because you love your canine…"     handcrafted all-natural canine products Our canine biscuits and treats are baked with wholesome ingredients and are always preservative free! Hand-blended aromatherapy dog shampoos, mists, candles, potpourri and ointments using therapeutic essential oils, organic herbs and infused oils. Visit our forum at http://www.delphi.com/NaturalDog

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Yes I too would be interested in the tests as the test I heard about was 3 hours long, videotaped and cost about $500 which would be close to 1000 American pretty serious money if anyone has more than one dog Nancy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> AWESOME! I am so so happy, but would love to know more about this test. > Please keep us posted! > Sevi and the rest of the crew >               http://www.cybercanine.com >           "Because you love your canine…" >     handcrafted all-natural canine products > Our canine biscuits and treats are baked with wholesome ingredients and are > always preservative free! Hand-blended aromatherapy dog shampoos, mists, > candles, potpourri and ointments using therapeutic essential oils, organic > herbs and infused oils. > Visit our forum at http://www.delphi.com/NaturalDog

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> Yes I too would be interested in the tests as the test I heard about was 3 > hours long, videotaped and cost about $500 which would be close to 1000 > American > pretty serious money if anyone has more than one dog

That was my understanding, too, based on the 1st of the local bans, Hamburg.  It is important to note that Hessen is that latest of the local laws, and the worst.  They’ve already started killing dogs under the Hessen law, which was just passed this week.  It makes sense that Hessen would adopt the VDH test that is already in place in other locations, but nobody should interpret this as meaning the dogs are now safe. Lynn K.

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>Dear friends from the States, Australia, Canada, England and from all >over the world – WE MADE IT !!! OUR DOGS ARE FREE !!!!

*clapping* cheering * whistling * barking * howling * other celebratory sound effects as desired! * That was FAST.  I think I’m impressed;  politicians don’t readily back down, even when it’s obvious they’re wrong. And the important thing is the dogs are going to be okay! I don’t have any source of details other than usenet (I don’t have TV, the newspapers could care less, internet news sources I’m not finding somehow, and I know several Germans but they’re not up to date on what’s happening "back home" either).  Here I read that many dogs had been killed already, in Hamburg.  Do we know what the situation is there?  And what about the dog-owners? One step at a time, I know, and count me in as one of those having a par-tay (with my own dogs) in celebration of this step in the right direction! ….new email (same old waterbed)

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LynnK writes:

:but nobody should interpret this as meaning the :dogs are now safe. Exactly. That post has been making the rounds of the Pit Bull and anti-BSL lists, and it doesn’t even BEGIN to suggest any real turn-around. JohnR Pit Bull Libertarian Never sneer at the power of a little pink squeaky toy!

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Hi All, A friend from Slovenia forwarded this to a list I’m on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear friends from the States, Australia, Canada, England and from all over the world – WE MADE IT !!! OUR DOGS ARE FREE !!!! We were working here night and day, collecting everything, writing…. and at night I got a message that said: The Minister of the Interior of Hessen will CHANGE THE LAW (so it was a 1day law:-)) Dogs who are living in families, have to do a test. If they stand this test, they can live with their families. We don’t know exactly what is part of the charactertest, but the dogs will be tested by dogpeople of our VDH, who know dogs (and not by politicans, who know nothing). So we are in good hope that every family dog will stand it. The dogs have to be on leads and with a muzzle – but THEY WILL LIVE. I didn’t want to write it to you this night because it wasn’t official (and it was said such a lot of things the last days..) and I didn’t trust the message. but now it is official. The minister break down under the avalanche of protests – our VDH (like your AKC), the veterinarians, special groups to save the dogs and lots, lots, lots of normal dogowners… But I am sure – WITHOUT YOU AND YOUR PROTESTS he wouldn’t have changed it so fast. The german openion is not so interesting for the politicans – voices from all over the world are!! I can’t say what I feel and I CAN’T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR YOUR KIND HELP!!! Our dogs are in danger still in the city of Hamburg – but I’m sure, the senator of Hamburg has to break down too with his ideas to kill the dogs. The fight goes on – we are fighting now against the law, that the dogs have to been muzzled all the time on the streets. No dog with a muzzle can have a social life – we are in good hope, that we will win this point too. The first region with this rule (Nordrhein – Westfalen; the region surrounding D

I am looking for MicroTek Anti-itching Spray. I have found it very helpful for my shepard’s skin allergies. I live in San Diego and I had a pet suppy place that carried it previously. If you know of the source or know of a better product, please let me know. Thank You! —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Here is a url and their e-mail. Maybe they can help you where to find this spray. http://www.microtek-intl.com/ Good Luck, Sevi               http://www.cybercanine.com           "Because you love your canine…"     handcrafted all-natural canine products Our canine biscuits and treats are baked with wholesome ingredients and are always preservative free! Hand-blended aromatherapy dog shampoos, mists, candles, potpourri and ointments using therapeutic essential oils, organic herbs and infused oils. Visit our forum at http://www.delphi.com/NaturalDog – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking for MicroTek Anti-itching Spray. I have found it very helpful > for my shepard’s skin allergies. I live in San Diego and I had a pet suppy > place that carried it previously. If you know of the source or know of a > better product, please let me know. > Thank You! > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Not so long ago and not so far away, >Yikes!  We don’t have much money to spend on attendants’ presents (around >$20), so we’re probably going to buy some nice picture frames for them. >Maybe the MOH and BM get nicer picture frames.  We just don’t have an >extra $400 to spend on presents.  :(

I think people understand this.  I’m spending a lot, but Robert and I have a combined annual income of well over $100k (USA).  It’s one thing to spend $20/attendant when you are starting out or have a combined income of $40k (USA).  It is quite another for us to do it.   Every wedding has to have a budget unless you have $20,000 to throw at it.  However, in our situation, where we can look at the budget and say, "That ravioli costs $300 extra and if we back off to the fennel, we would have that $300 to spend on something else like attendant gifts." But I know that for my friends who got married right out of undergrad or while in graduate school and whose parents weren’t loaded, it wasn’t a question of trade-offs.  One wedding was pared down to the basics, ceremony and reception at the free church (members get this) with cake and punch; she wore her mother’s dress and he wore a suit; Dad did the music, the flowers consisted of 1 bouquet, and I can’t recall a photographer (maybe it was just an excellent photographer .   It was beautiful.  The didn’t have money for any extras, but we all understood this. If we did that, I don’t think people would judge us one way or another.   Not everyone wants a tremendous affair for their wedding.  But we aren’t doing that.  Robert and I are having an expensive, extragant wedding.  And while it might be in poor taste for us to give an inexpensive gift in light of how much we are spending on the wedding, more importantly it would reflect how we valued our friends helping us by being our attendents vs how we valued spending money on a big, extragant party for us.   — Jennifer in California    | From what we get, we can make a living;                           | -Arthur Ashe http://www.oaktrees.org/

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How much you spend depends.  I think your ideas are fabulous and affordable. I wanted to have a very special gift to my two bridesmaids (which incidentally was somewhat expensive), as I grew up with them and we’ve been close over the years.  However, I SPECIFICALLY budgeted for these gifts and made some exceptions elsewhere. I hope that my two bridesmaids don’t read this newsgroup.  They think they’re getting a 10 dollar manicure and a pair of formal gloves!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sound fine to me but I may be cheap too.  Rather than waste money on costume >jewelry that matches the dress but only looks good from far away (that’s >what you’re talking about, right?) I was thinking of getting mine beauty >gift certificates.  Like a free manicure and pedicure (total $42) or >something.  That way, they can use it for the wedding day, or not; either >way it’s something nice for them, not just a gift to myself (like cheap >jewelry).  Anyway, the amount you spend also depends on the overall scale of >the entire event budget, the cost of their outfits, etc etc…but no, i >don’t think you’re cheap. >jb > Can anyone tell me approximately how much you are spending on your > attendants? Every wedding I’ve been in I’ve been given some cheezy > jewelry to wear the day of the wedding to match the dress, only once was > the quality and style nice enough to wear at other times. I didn’t want > to do this to my attendants and I don’t know how much some of the > jewelry costs. I think I have finally figured out what I want to get all > of the attendants, but am worried that I might be coming off cheap > looking. The girls will be given a picture frame (for photo later), > personalized or Coach brand key chain, and a aromatherapy candle and I > am estimating it all to cost around $30-$40 each. The ushers will get > their tuxes paid for (students and are bearly making ends meet & no one > knows about this) and personalized beer mug, and the best man getting a > nice car buffer (inside joke from groom + he has a new vehicle) and beer > mug. Is this really enough? If I was to give my personal attendant a > little extra, should I do that before the rehearsal lunch so the other’s > don’t wonder why she’s getting more? Should we do that for the best man > too? Should I be spending more on the girls if the men are getting so > much? Or am I spending more than most couples actually spend on their > attendants? > Thank you in advance.

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I am planning to take the women in the wedding party with me for a pampering session of manicures/pedicures on the afternoon before the wedding (before the rehearsal and rehearsal dinner) and/or a light lunch, perhaps at my house.  I am going to include the grandmas and my aunt as well. I think that will be nice! Of course, I will also give a little something to my Matron of Honor (FSIL), Maid of Honor (my sister), and Bridesmaid (my best friend) as well as the Jr. Bridesmaid (my neice) and Flower Girl (other neice).  I haven’t really talked much yet with FH about his attendants, but I am sure we will give each of them something as well, however we are on a limited budget and will have to choose wisely and inexpensively basically. -Amy (to Eric 4/8/00) "Our deepest fears are like dragons guarding our deepest treasures."  - Rilke Please remove "NOSPAM" from email address to email. Thank you.

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Yikes!  We don’t have much money to spend on attendants’ presents (around $20), so we’re probably going to buy some nice picture frames for them. Maybe the MOH and BM get nicer picture frames.  We just don’t have an extra $400 to spend on presents.  :( Carren & Bill (3/20/99) —

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I started out with great intentions of getting my BMs jewelry and framed pictures of them from the wedding, along with the dried flowers from their bouquets… etc., etc.  (At one point I was considering buying all of their accessories and shoes, along with taking them out to brunch or breakfast the day before)  As time progressed, and both girls *forgot* about attending my bridal shower (which was organized by people I knew from work), and just BARELY put together a "bachelorette party" for me (paid for by some of my co-workers, instead of the girls), I must admit, I got cheaper and cheaper. I don’t mean for it to sound like they OWED me a bridal shower or bachelorette party — it just struck me as tacky that they didn’t even bother to attend the one that was thrown for me… in fact, I got more help from co-workers throughout the planning process than I got from both girls combined.  It was kind of a nightmare, and I spent countless hours upset and hurt by their behavior.  At the same time, as I found out later, both girls thought that I was behaving badly and expecting their worlds to revolve around my wedding.  Oh well, what’s done is done, and the most important part – the actual wedding – turned out beautifully, I could not have asked for a better day. <sigh>?  Anyway… what was this about?  Oh yeah, I bought each girl a pair of gold stud earrings that they could choose to wear on the wedding day (one did; one didn’t), and they each got about ten or so reprints from the wedding…. all in all, I probably spent around $40 each….. ~CD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Can anyone tell me approximately how much you are spending on your >attendants? >I’m getting my attendants an unusual acrylic frame – hard to describe but >pretty cool.  Most everyone will use a frame sometime or somewhere. They’re >$40 each, and the guys will be getting their tuxes paid for as their gift. >Hope this helps. >Pat >6/5/99

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Sound fine to me but I may be cheap too.  Rather than waste money on costume jewelry that matches the dress but only looks good from far away (that’s what you’re talking about, right?) I was thinking of getting mine beauty gift certificates.  Like a free manicure and pedicure (total $42) or something.  That way, they can use it for the wedding day, or not; either way it’s something nice for them, not just a gift to myself (like cheap jewelry).  Anyway, the amount you spend also depends on the overall scale of the entire event budget, the cost of their outfits, etc etc…but no, i don’t think you’re cheap. jb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Can anyone tell me approximately how much you are spending on your > attendants? Every wedding I’ve been in I’ve been given some cheezy > jewelry to wear the day of the wedding to match the dress, only once was > the quality and style nice enough to wear at other times. I didn’t want > to do this to my attendants and I don’t know how much some of the > jewelry costs. I think I have finally figured out what I want to get all > of the attendants, but am worried that I might be coming off cheap > looking. The girls will be given a picture frame (for photo later), > personalized or Coach brand key chain, and a aromatherapy candle and I > am estimating it all to cost around $30-$40 each. The ushers will get > their tuxes paid for (students and are bearly making ends meet & no one > knows about this) and personalized beer mug, and the best man getting a > nice car buffer (inside joke from groom + he has a new vehicle) and beer > mug. Is this really enough? If I was to give my personal attendant a > little extra, should I do that before the rehearsal lunch so the other’s > don’t wonder why she’s getting more? Should we do that for the best man > too? Should I be spending more on the girls if the men are getting so > much? Or am I spending more than most couples actually spend on their > attendants? > Thank you in advance.

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Carl and I decided that none of our attendants should be *out-of-pocket* for being our attendants.  So we have foot the bill for the hire of garments, the purchase of shoes, even jewellery and tiaras for the bridesmaids.  Our bridesmaids have cost us so far approximately

The thing that strikes me here is that you said the antibiotics helped.  If they helped then there must be some kind of bacterial infection.  This is obvious.  We need to remember when using antibiotics that the FULL course must be given otherwise the bacteria "learn" and grow stronger.  Always, always, always, give the whole course and keep the time schedule between the doses regular.  It’s also quite possible your kitty has allergies as well. Have you asked your vet about a low-allergen food?  Do you use fragrances in the house?  Any smokers?  Incense is bad for allergies.  I can’t believe this is incurable.  I’d be skeptical about that.  Sometimes we can "kill" ourselves and our pets with "kindness".  Not taking medications when needed, not eating certain foods, etc.  I went that route once before and was never so unhealthy in all my life.  I’m all for natural methods when practical but I never shun allopathic medicine when it’s indicated.  Your kitty may need more than one course of the antibiotics.  Give that a good try.  Make sure his diet is good.  Maybe an air cleaner will help if he has allergies.  A second veterinary opinion is a good idea. Best Wishes Mary

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I got desperate with the same on-going respiratory symptoms in my cat "Goodness" so, after several rounds of liquid antibiotics that my sweet kitty objected to taking, I talked to a holistic doctor who recommended "THUJA," an immune system booster.  You can get it at the health food store for about $5.  I give my cat 4 pellets morning and night for two days whenever a cold comes on.  The very low concentration can’t hurt your cat. I also boil water for hours with essential oils in it to boost the immune system and relieve stress — a few drops of eucalyptus, lavender, fennel, coriander, rosemary, tea tree, grapefruit, and geranium — about $7 each from the health food store. More importantly, I had to look at what is causing the cat’s weakened state. She’s a feral kitten almost a year old, only with me for two months.  In that time, I’ve had her spayed which caused a hernia which caused constipation so she had an enema after three days of being backed up and vomiting her stomach contents and yellow bile.  She also had antibiotic pills for a skin condition that cleared up.  Then she got this cold that wouldn’t end.  She snores at night and purrs through phlegm.  The vet warned me that this could be potentially fatal.  IF the cat loses its sense of smell, it won’t eat, and then the infection wins.  Since I love this cat, I just keep shelling out the money. Loving Goodness is the most efficient way I’ve found to turn cold, hard cash into dirty kitty litter… The expense is tremendous!  I could help my vet retire 10 years early.  I resent the cost of some of this stuff.  For example, if I wanted one, I could get an enema cheaper than this cat  –  $93!, and I could get it done by a fat lady with a French accent in a softly lit private suite with New Age music against a background of ocean waves and loon song.  And my lower cost would include some concoction of organically grown herbal stimulants and aromatherapy…  Plus I’d get a gift bag to take home, filled with three kinds of laxative herbal teas and a meditation candle, the fragrance of trees and spice.  And I could keep the damn bag!  Ha!  Get one to match my shoes even! I finally resorted to calling an

> I have read that it is not safe to use air freshner or scented candles. > i have an ozone ionizer in my home so it always smells nice and has > clean air. I like aromatherapy and am not sure what is safe to use inmy > bird home?

There used to be a guy who read rec.pets.birds named Jim Graham.  He was on some asthma or allergy mailing lists or something, and it turns out that the ionisers actually make the air worse for people.  If I remember correctly it irritates nasal passages or something.  This is from memory so it would be better to search the net for more info. As for air fresheners and scented candles, see http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/ for citronella and incense, and scented candles. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

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I have read that it is not safe to use air freshner or scented candles. i have an ozone ionizer in my home so it always smells nice and has clean air. I like aromatherapy and am not sure what is safe to use inmy bird home? love from the feathered creatures                         brandi bird

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>I’m throwing a bridal shower for my sister (I’m her MOH) in a couple of >months and am having trouble coming up with a selection of games.  

 At my sister’s wedding shower, we played this very silly game where  we broke into teams and each team got two rolls of toilet paper  and had to use it to make a bridal gown for one of their team members,  without using tape or staples or anything but toilet paper.  Whichever team makes the best dress, wins.  It was actually incredibly fun, especially since we’d all had a few  drinks. Our grandmother was a fabulous bride.  k.  Kate Gardner  http://weber.u.washington.edu/~katya/wedding/mwtf.html

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>We’re going to do a version of the clothes-pin game where you loose your >pin when you say the word "wedding" and I’m going to do a guessing game >with various unusual foods and kitchen implements, but I’d like to have >one more (or do you think that’s enough?)

[clip] I think that’s enough.  Three organized activities (including the gift-opening ritual) is actually more than enough for one party.  But I’m generally not into these kinds of games anyway.  Have some other things in mind if you want, but make sure you don’t interrupt people who are having a good time talking and eating in order to play an organized game. >I found a game in a book where the guests write out various "Dear Abby" >type questions and answers, which get randomly matched and read out >loud.  The book promises hilarious results but I have my doubts.

Did this at my FSIL’s shower.  Was sort of funny, but not exactly hilarious.  Some of the matchups were cute, others simply made no sense. Got the impression everyone was laughing harder than the joke actually warranted (it was kind of an uptight party for various reasons, and I think we all wanted to convince ourselves we were having a better time than we actually were). Holly (& Ken) 8/25/96

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Mary: Try a couple of these games: 1) Write a wedding mad lib for the bride, and have her offer answers to questions like: your favorite color, your favorite grain, your favorite phrase, your fiance’s favorite phrase, favorite childhood game, favorite number, etc. Then fit those into the story. Our bride had a purple dress, had pasta thrown on her leaving the church, said "No Way!" during her vows (the groom said, "Hey honey, wanna snuggle?"), played 87 (favorite number) games of duck duck goose (favorite childhood game) on her wedding night… you get the idea. Personalize it for the couple, and it will be a riot. If you want, I can post the one my mom wrote for our friend. 2) Another fun clothespin game is a little physical, but a great way to break the ice. Everybody gets a clothespin when they come in, and if they cross their legs, anybody else can take their pin. This can get really funny, with people lunging across the table for other people’s pins. The person who has the most pins at the end of the party wins a prize, in our case, a masculine action figure. Use your imagination, and I’m sure you’ll have fun. Sara

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I am the first of my friends to be married, so I have never attended a bridal shower, but I helped plan a baby shower (unfortunately could not attend due to a car accident right before) for my FSIL with my other FSIL.  I made a whole bunch of ‘pictionary’ words that had to do with babies, from ordinary things like diapers to the really weird and hard to draw like breast pump (my fiance–co-ed family shower– got that and didn’t know what it was!).  I didn’t see the game, but I heard it was a big hit.  You could play a wedding pictionary version, too.   I recommend getting a big pad of  newsprint so that everyone can watch all at once.  Use words like limo, cake,  garter, minister, organist, rehearsal dinner, or anything else you think of.  The harder to draw, the funnier. Have fun! Stephanie 9/21 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m throwing a bridal shower for my sister (I’m her MOH) in a couple of >months and am having trouble coming up with a selection of games.   >We’re going to do a version of the clothes-pin game where you loose your >pin when you say the word "wedding" and I’m going to do a guessing game >with various unusual foods and kitchen implements, but I’d like to have >one more (or do you think that’s enough?) >This is a mixed group of women- friends and co-workers, family members >from both families, etc.  So we have a variety of ages and a lot of >people who don’t know each other. >I found a game in a book where the guests write out various "Dear Abby" >type questions and answers, which get randomly matched and read out >loud.  The book promises hilarious results but I have my doubts. >Any suggestions? >Mary Jensen

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I’m throwing a bridal shower for my sister (I’m her MOH) in a couple of months and am having trouble coming up with a selection of games.   We’re going to do a version of the clothes-pin game where you loose your pin when you say the word "wedding" and I’m going to do a guessing game with various unusual foods and kitchen implements, but I’d like to have one more (or do you think that’s enough?) This is a mixed group of women- friends and co-workers, family members from both families, etc.  So we have a variety of ages and a lot of people who don’t know each other. I found a game in a book where the guests write out various "Dear Abby" type questions and answers, which get randomly matched and read out loud.  The book promises hilarious results but I have my doubts. Any suggestions? Mary Jensen

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Hi, I’m having a bridal shower and I’m looking for a game to keep the guests awake!!  Any suggestions? Diane

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http://www.bridalshowerbingo.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >I’m having a bridal shower and I’m looking for a game to keep the >guests awake!!  Any suggestions? >Diane

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Hi, If you are looking for a bridal shower game makes the gift opening process as much fun for the guests as it is for the bride-to-be then check out http://www.bridalshowerbingo.com.  It’s Bridal Shower Bingo and it is currently only sold over the Internet or by calling 1-800-983-4321.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > I’m having a bridal shower and I’m looking for a game to keep the > guests awake!!  Any suggestions? > Diane

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>It’s Bridal Shower Bingo >and it is currently only sold over the Internet >or by calling…

Funny..  My 16 year old cousin who doesn’t have access to the Internet or a credit card for ordering over the phone  purchsed Bridal Bingo at a party store for my sister’s shower. Looks like you didn’t do your research. Andrea Terese Riechers (OK??)

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ATR, I can honestly say that Im glad to see you are leaving this newsgroups your mean and Catty comments are annoying.  You talk about people not being kind, well I think you need to take a look at yourself and do a bit of "research" on how to not be condescending and rude. Kate

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i am hosting a bridal shower… soon we are having a sit down lunch prepared by a friend are planning to watch the anne of green gables series and play board games such as beyond balderdash, scategories, tribond etc but these are all things that everyone invited will enjoy… good luck traci

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>I’m having a bridal shower and I’m looking for a game to keep the >guests awake!!  Any suggestions? >Diane

There are several books with general suggestions for shower games.  But the easiest way to pick something is to think about the shower theme, if there is one.  Tie the shower games or activities to the theme. For example:  At a kitchen shower, the host buys 5 to 10 small kitchen gadgets (the more bizarre, the better) and puts each in a lunch sack or similar opaque bag.  Guests must reach into each bag, without looking, and guess based on touch what is in the bag.  Small prizes go to the best guessers; the gadgets go to the bride. There’s a similar guessing game where you put food or household materials (flour, wheat germ, laundry detergent) in small transparent Tupperware-type containers, and the guests guess what’s in them by sight (without smelling or tasting). If the shower is for both bride and groom, a "newlywed game" type trivia quiz is fun.  In fact, you can do that even if it’s a girl shower, by getting answers from the groom ahead of time. If it’s a lingerie/personal shower, how about handing out little slips of paper and asking each guest to make up a "sex and relationship question" that the bride might have on the eve of her wedding, and then write an answer to the question on a separate slip of paper.  Mix the questions in one bowl and the answers in another.  Then the bride takes one question at a time and reads it aloud and the shower host reads an answer.  Not the matching answer, you understand, but a random one.  The results can be hilarious. Give a ‘cocooning’ shower (gift ideas: down comforter, his-n-hers slippers, tea and cocoa gift basket, videos) and play board games in front of the fireplace. Give an alphabet shower and play word scramble games (with wedding-related words, of course!). If these kinds of games seem retarded you don’t have to use them.  Plan other party activities instead, the same kind of thing you’d do if it were not a shower but a housewarming or birthday or holiday party.  I co-hosted a shower for some friends with Mexican food and we had a pinata — which was a lot of fun, and totally different from the usual nonsense.  We also had more traditional activities: The gifts were done on a ’round the clock’ basis, and the MOH made a game out of having the bride and groom guess what the designated hour was for each gift after they were all opened.  (We drew a big clockface on a paper tablecloth and they had to put each gift on the right time on the table.)  But the guests got to just watch and comment. Best of luck! Holly (married Ken, 8/25/96)

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I’m looking for a few simple games and prize suggestions.  This is the first one I’ve ever done and I’m overwhelmed.  thanks!

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I found a website that has more shower games than you care to read about. You should be able to find some that you like. http://www.blissezine.com/games.htm Maria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m looking for a few simple games and prize suggestions.  This is the >first one I’ve ever done and I’m overwhelmed.  thanks!

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hi there! at one of my showers, the hostess (my aunt moe) made up an "ann & jeff trivia game" where she listed about 20 questions about us to ask the guests… it was a lot of fun, very creative, and great for conversation (you don’t even need to know the answers, because the bride will be there to supply them!) she had questions like: where did ann & jeff go to college, where did they get engaged, how did they meet, when are their birthdays, etc. typical shower favors/prizes: lotions, soaps, bath stuff oil, vineagars, spices picture frames, photo albums notepads, stationery dishtowels plants for another one of my showers, my sister painted little terracotta pots and planted little flowers in them for favors… they were really cute and doubled as decorations… you could also drop votive candles in little flowerpots if you didn’t want to bother with planting. you might also want to consider having a theme shower… have each guest bring a recipe, a kitchen gadget, a teacup, a picture of them with the bride to be… just some ideas! good luck & happy planning!

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Does Anyone have any neat ideas for Bridal Shower games? Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks!

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>Does Anyone have any neat ideas for Bridal Shower games? >Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks!

We have posted a collection of Bridal Shower games at http://www.desertcom.com/wedding/pot.htm Hope this helps!

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Hi I am new to this room and I need some Game ideas for a wedding shower My siter and I are putting on for our soon to be sister in law! if any one can help me I really would appreciate it! you can e-mail me  at Thanks again!!!! BTW the shower is August 10 so need suggestions in the next little while!

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: Hi I am new to this room and I need some Game ideas for a wedding shower : My siter and I are putting on for our soon to be sister in law! if any : one can help me I really would appreciate it! you can e-mail me  at : Thanks again!!!! BTW the shower is August 10 so need suggestions in the : next little while! There’s a section of wedding shower games in the "party planning" section of Bliss E-Zine (http://www.blissezine.com).  This is a nice little e-zine, even though there aren’t many links to other wedding sites! Jill

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I did a trivia quiz for a shower I hosted where at least 50% of the people were the type who rolled their eyes and gagged at the idea of doing "games."  In this case, the theme of the shower was "Months of the Year" where each person brought a gift associated with a month.   SO, all the questions had to do with months.  Like, What month was the groom born?  What month does the rainy season in Hawaii begin (that was the site of their honeymoon).  What month did they get engaged?   What month is diamond the birthstone for?  And so on.   But you could do any sort of trivia.  Some could be knowledge of the bride and groom, others could be wedding- and love-related trivia.  I tried to get a mix of questions that anyone would know, some that were random and you’d probably have to guess, and some inbetween.  Some of the questions were easy to compose, the rest I developed from facts out of reference books.  I think I only had 10 questions.  Probably 10-15 is a good number.  Then I read out the correct answers, and I gave the winner a small gift (with a tiebreaker prepared just in case).  There was a lot of laughter and discussion and groaning over answers. Get a good "emcee" for reading out the questions, who will ham it up and give some good lead-ins to why each question is being asked.   Just one option!  Good luck.

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>>Hi I am new to this room and I need some Game ideas for a wedding shower

My siter and I are putting on for our soon to be sister in law! if any one can help me I really would appreciate it! << I just survived my shower two weeks ago, and there was only one game. Before we opened gifts, everyone was given a "bingo" type sheet and asked to write down in the boxes what types of gifts they anticipated I would receive.  You were allowed to ask people next to you, and some people passed around the registry list.  When they were finished guessing, I started opening gifts, and they put a sticker on each square as I opened that gift.  Whoever got "bingo" first won a gift.  Then they had alternate winners, like whoever got an L shape, or whoever got all four corners, etc.  Everyone seemed to enjoy the game. (Please reply to this address instead of the header address)

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> I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game thing!! > I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been > given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e > directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they will > be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully > start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great > ideas!!

Like everyone else, I thought "TEA TIME!"  Not that I have ever had a tea party. Maybe for a different idea, you could buy two nice-looking picture frames.   Professional-looking, not too frou-frou.  And then in the place where the photo would go, put a saying about how you figure at 2 pm they will be apart (probably at work) so you’re giving them each a matching frame for their engagement photo or wedding photo or other personal photo of the two of them.  They can keep it on their desk at work, and when they look at it, they can think of one another–and maybe give the other a call to say "I love you."  A more artistic person than me could perhaps compose a short little poem that says that better. Okay, okay, it is corny *ducking tomatoes* but at least it is an alterantive to a teapot (which I’ll bet the 3:00 person is out buying RIGHT NOW). — KZ * * I have a wedding page with a collection of ideas for small weddings, * theme weddings, and destination weddings : * * http://www.umich.edu/~kzaruba/wedding.html *

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> > I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game > thing!! I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) > given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts??

What about monogrammed stationary or engraved pens?  You can use those any time, but are more suited for 2pm than 6pm.         Jennifer Liang                          |^/| Philosophy / Women’s Studies II              _||   |/|_      Carleton University                     >              <                                                  |_|

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Thanks so much, everyone, for all the great ideas!! Sorry for not specifying the time (am/pm). It is 2:00 p.m. (aka 1400 hrs) and tea sounds like a great idea! (for some reason I thought tea time was around 4pm….wrong, I guess!) I did a little shopping today and brainstorming… I think that I will go with the tea idea in some respect. She had registered at Target (why didn’t they have that when I got married!) and had some great items to go with the theme… I really needed some help on this one to come up with a creative and nice gift. She will be my husband’s best from college (we knew each other but not very well–age difference) and they are moving to our town shortly after the wedding! I wanted to make a good impression to hopefully start a great new friendship. You have all helped a lot! Didn’t mean to seem lazy (about sending the e’s to me directly) just thought other’s might not want it cluttering up the NG!!  I appreciate all of them–posted here and e’d Have a good one… Melissa

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Hi! A friend of mine went to a shower like this, and I thought it was a great idea.   Let’s see what could be happening around 2:00 pm. . . 1.  Tea Time — you could get a tea set, tea pot, mugs, different types of teas, serving tray, etc.   Even an iced tea maker!   Maybe if they’re are not into tea, you could substitute coffee or hot chocolate. 2.  Nap Time — pillows, a nice throw or aphgan, a good book, aromatherapy candles, etc. 3.  Sports Time — couldn’t tell from your post whether the shower was for a male or female.   You could get tickets to a sporting event, sporting equipment, etc. 4.  Picnic Time — you could fill a picnic basket with a bunch of goodies for this one!   Glasses, wine or sparkling cider, chocolates, candles, etc. Good luck! Barb (& Steve – 5/22/99) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game >thing!! >I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been >given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e >directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they >will >be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully >start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great >ideas!!

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You didn’t say if 2:00pm or 2:00am (yes, I’ve had 2:00am before, it’s MUCH HARDER!!!).  I’ll assume 2:00pm…  Depending on where you live, there are a few ideas.  I’d say ice tea (mint julip, etc) glasses and a pitcher for sitting outside.  I’m pretty sure that British "High Tea" is around 2:00pm so you could give a pretty tea cup and tea pot.  Or you could think along the lines of Sunday brunch (napkins, placemats, etc). When all else fails, explain that when it is 2:00 your time, it is ?? o’clock somewhere else.  Then you get to pick the time you want and can even make it themed to a different place.  Hope that helps. — Lyn Fisher – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game thing!! > I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been > given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e > directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they will > be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully > start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great > ideas!!

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Hopefully, I can explain this well in writing… Give each guest something when they come in (a clothespin, ribbon, nickel, something small).  When you give it to them, explain this:  No one is allowed to cross her/his legs after they sit down.  If someone catches you crossing your legs, that person collects your clothespin (or whatever item), along with any other clothespins you may have collected.  If YOU catch someone else crossing their legs, you collect their clothespin, along with any other clothespins they may have collected themselves.  The person with the most clothespins at the end of the day gets a door prize.  Make sense? This game has been played at several showers I have attended.  It can drive you CRAZY because it is such a habit for women to cross their legs!! (You can decide on a rule about whether crossing at the ankles counts the same as at the knee.) Tricia remove X to e-mail www.beevy.com/card_search/usa?35-5590

:I was at a wedding shower recently and we played a really cute game.  The hostess :cut out about 15 pictures of wedding dresses from a bridal magazine.  Then, she :pasted over the heads of the brides, pictures of famous people (George Bush, David :Letterman).  It was really funny and some of them were very very hard to guess :even though they were very famous people.  It was funny seeing these people’s :heads attached to wedding dresses. : yan :

: :> >> My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that :> >> are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the :> >> center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up :> >> with much that isn’t really old (or corny). :> :> I am not sure if this fits under your "old" catagory, but the last shower I :> went to the bride disappeared to the bedroom for a few minutes.  After she was :> gone, we were given pieces of paper and to list as many details about her :> appearance that day.  The person with the most right answers got a prize.  It :> is helpful if the bride knows to dress for this game — wearing more jewelry :> etc. :> Another was everyone wrote down thier birthday, and whomever was closest to :> thier wedding date got a prize… :> May be boring, but if you are desparate.. :> Beep : : : :– yan Crandall :Web Master :Sam Houston State University :College of Criminal Justice :http://www.shsu.edu/cjcenter : :

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>> My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that > are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the > center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up > with much that isn’t really old (or corny).

I am not sure if this fits under your "old" catagory, but the last shower I went to the bride disappeared to the bedroom for a few minutes.  After she was gone, we were given pieces of paper and to list as many details about her appearance that day.  The person with the most right answers got a prize.  It is helpful if the bride knows to dress for this game — wearing more jewelry etc. Another was everyone wrote down thier birthday, and whomever was closest to thier wedding date got a prize… May be boring, but if you are desparate.. Beep

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I was at a wedding shower recently and we played a really cute game.  The hostess cut out about 15 pictures of wedding dresses from a bridal magazine.  Then, she pasted over the heads of the brides, pictures of famous people (George Bush, David Letterman).  It was really funny and some of them were very very hard to guess even though they were very famous people.  It was funny seeing these people’s heads attached to wedding dresses. Dyan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that >> are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the >> center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up >> with much that isn’t really old (or corny). > I am not sure if this fits under your "old" catagory, but the last shower I > went to the bride disappeared to the bedroom for a few minutes.  After she was > gone, we were given pieces of paper and to list as many details about her > appearance that day.  The person with the most right answers got a prize.  It > is helpful if the bride knows to dress for this game — wearing more jewelry > etc. > Another was everyone wrote down thier birthday, and whomever was closest to > thier wedding date got a prize… > May be boring, but if you are desparate.. > Beep

– Dyan Crandall Web Master Sam Houston State University College of Criminal Justice http://www.shsu.edu/cjcenter

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I have hosted several showers for sisters/sisters-in-law to be and here are a few games which we found entertaining… 1. Experience game: Everyone in attendance is given a number of pennies or other small item (like around 20). Then you go arounfd the room and everyone says something that they have NEVER done. I.E. never been out of the country, never been married, never had a baby.  They can be as specific or broad as they want. the object of the game is to end up with the most pennies or any at the end. The winner is the one with pennies left. You can put a bowl in the center of everyone to drop the pennies in. 2. Love songs – play snippets of songs which have "love" in the title and have everyone guess the title & artist. You can pre-record a tape with all these snippets. Just don’t play a part of the song that actually has the title in it. 3. Info on bride/groom – write out a little quiz about the bride & groom and have everyone answer the questions. Sample questions may be: where/how they met, favorite colors, favorite food, middle names, etc. Another funny thing you can do is to have someone write down all the comments the bride-to-be says while opening presents. Then you read these comments back to everyone with the heading "Things that might be heard on their honeymoon night" -this can be funny because the bride-to-be usually says things like: I know just where to put that, this is fabulous, where did you ever find that..etc. Hope this helps.. > My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that > are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the > center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up > with much that isn’t really old (or corny). > Thanks.

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Here’s a cute game!! Put small items, eg. kitchen items, personal items, etc…(Stick to one subject so the guests kind of have an idea what types of items they would be) in small brown paper bags (maybe about 10 bags) staple bag shut and pass the bags numbered 1 – 10  around to each person at the shower.  They have to try to guess what’s in the bag by feeling through the bag. they write their answers down on paper.   The person who gets the most right wins a prize and of course the bride gets all the items in the bag.  This is great for baby showers to if you use baby things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that > are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the > center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up > with much that isn’t really old (or corny). > Thanks.

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>I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game >thing!! >I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been >given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e >directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they >will >be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully >start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great >ideas!!

I’ll just post my idea here, if you don’t mind.  Something about asking for great ideas but not wanting to go to the trouble of actually reading the responses unless they are sent directly to the help-seeker. . . Just me?   Anyway. . . You didn’t say whether the time was 2:00 a.m. or 2:00 p.m.  I’ll go ahead an post for both. For 2:00 p.m., you could get a nice tea pot and some great flavored teas. Some of my favorites are chammomile, lemon zinger, and mint.  They’re great in the afternoon.  You should be able to fix up a nice assortment that can range anywhere from $20 up to $50, depending on how much the teapot is and how many teas you provide. Also for 2:00 p.m., you could get a breadmaker.  If you start making bread at two, it’ll be ready by 5 or 6 o’clock dinner! For 2:00 a.m., you could get some satin sheets or those really neat sheets made out of T-shirt material. 2:00 a.m. could also warrant some sexy lingerie for both him and her. 2:00 am. may also remind one of insomnia, so maybe a bottle of brandy to help one sleep? koa Madison, AL

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> I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game thing!! > I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been > given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts??

To me, 2:00 (and I assume you mean 2PM) represents: * coffee breaks (coffee maker, coffee grinder, set of mugs to match their everyday pattern?) * nap time (nice down pillows, a pretty throw/laprug, one of those aromatherapy eyemasks?) * busy at work (maybe a portable hanging-file boxed filled with organizational stuff for the home office?) * daylight (stuff for the garden–seeds, tools, gloves, length of garden hose?) HTH! Ketchup

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I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game thing!! I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they will be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great ideas!!

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> I have a question for all of you that seem so good at this shower game thing!! > I am going to a shower this weekend ("Round the clock" shower) and have been > given the hour of 2:00!! Any good ideas out there for gifts?? please e > directly!! thanks so much. The groom is my husband’s best friend and they will > be moving here soon. I would like to make a good impression and hopefully > start a great new friendship. Thanks!!  i can’t wait to hear all the great > ideas!!

2:00 am-could be some type of food for late night cravings or lingerie or something for the bed (sheets, throwpillows, etc) because you would normally be sleeping 2:00 pm-coffee break items, afternoon tea items

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writes: > Path:

akron5.neo.lrun.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.7 1.76 137!news.campus.mci.net!n-f-m > Newsgroups: alt.wedding > Organization: campusMCI Internet > Lines: 76

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > NNTP-Posting-Host: s23-pm43.snaustel.campus.mci.net > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > Xref: akron5.neo.lrun.com alt.wedding:121927 > Hopefully, I can explain this well in writing… > Give each guest something when they come in (a clothespin, > ribbon, nickel, something small). >  When you give it to them, explain this:  No one is allowed to > cross her/his legs after they sit down.  If someone catches you > crossing your legs, that person collects your clothespin (or > whatever item), along with any other clothespins you may have > collected.  If YOU catch someone else crossing their legs, you > collect their clothespin, along with any other clothespins they > may have collected themselves.  The person with the most > clothespins at the end of the day gets a door prize.  Make sense? > This game has been played at several showers I have attended.  It > can drive you CRAZY because it is such a habit for women to cross > their legs!! > (You can decide on a rule about whether crossing at the ankles > counts the same as at the knee.) > Tricia > remove X to e-mail > www.beevy.com/card_search/usa?35-5590 > :I was at a wedding shower recently and we played a really cute > game.  The hostess > :cut out about 15 pictures of wedding dresses from a bridal > magazine.  Then, she > :pasted over the heads of the brides, pictures of famous people > (George Bush, David > :Letterman).  It was really funny and some of them were very very > hard to guess > :even though they were very famous people.  It was funny seeing > these people’s > :heads attached to wedding dresses. > : > yan > : > : > :> >> My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She > wants games that > :> >> are more centered around the bride (her sister…she > doesn’t like being the > :> >> center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and > couldn’t come up > :> >> with much that isn’t really old (or corny). > :> > :> I am not sure if this fits under your "old" catagory, but the > last shower I > :> went to the bride disappeared to the bedroom for a few > minutes.  After she was > :> gone, we were given pieces of paper and to list as many > details about her > :> appearance that day.  The person with the most right answers > got a prize.  It > :> is helpful if the bride knows to dress for this game — > wearing more jewelry > :> etc. > :> Another was everyone wrote down thier birthday, and whomever > was closest to > :> thier wedding date got a prize… > :> May be boring, but if you are desparate.. > :> Beep > : > : > : > :– > yan Crandall > :Web Master > :Sam Houston State University > :College of Criminal Justice > :http://www.shsu.edu/cjcenter > : > :

I did a shower for my future sister in law this weekend.  I was in charge of the games.  The best one was we split the group except for the bride into groups of 3-4 people.  Gave them each 4 rolls of toilet paper and sent them into different rooms of the house and had them design a bridal gown.  They choose 1 person out of the group to be the bride and made the dress and headpiece for her.  They were not allowed to use any tape or pins, only toilet paper.  Each group was called into the main group, one at a time and the bride was the judge for the best gown and headpiece.  The winning team each got a small prize.  It was really funny!!  Hope this helps

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My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up with much that isn’t really old (or corny). Thanks.

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Mike, I’m having the same problem, although I can’t find anything on the web, period, let alone old or corny.  What were some of the old or corny ideas that you found?  I’m desperate – I need a game for a shower TOMORROW! One game suggestion I received was to ask the groom for his list of likes and dislikes, and other facts that might be obscure to everyone but the bride, such as his most embarrassing moment, his age at his first date, etc.  With each correct answer from the bride, she gets to open another present.  This idea won’t work for my friend’s shower, since it’s impossible to get in touch with her fiance for the actual research, and there will be lots of people at the shower so opening gifts could take all night.  But I do see this idea working for a smaller shower.  Hope this helps. Does anyone else have any shower game ideas?  I need games for a shower TOMORROW – ARGH!!!  Thanks in advance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife is looking for some innovative shower games.  She wants games that > are more centered around the bride (her sister…she doesn’t like being the > center of attention).  We’ve searched ALL over the web and couldn’t come up > with much that isn’t really old (or corny). > Thanks.

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Thomas,     Here are a few ideas you may be interested in: 1. clothes pin game:     Everyone gets 5 clothes pins that they wear somewhere on their     body. If that person crosses any part of their of their body (ie. hands arms, legs) and someone see’s them then that person looses a pin. Person with the most clothes pins at the end of the shower gets a prize. 2. Make bridal dresses out of toilet paper     Break into even number groups 5 0r 6. One person is the bride for that group. The group designs a dress out of the paper which the bride must model for everyone. 1 person can sit out to judge. Give small gifts to members of the group with the best dress design. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Any ideas for bridal shower games?

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: Any ideas for bridal shower games?         Check out the party planning section at www.blissezine.com. There are a ton of games listed there.                                 Jill

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Any ideas for bridal shower games?

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I just had my shower this last weekend, and we played a few games.  I am sure that someone will know about these, but I thought I would post them for someones that don’t 1.  Jennie (my MOH) brought in about 15 or 20 small gifts, already wrapped (there were 12 people there).  The first game:  everyone gets a number (except me, cause I got to go last!)  #1 gets a gift and unwraps it.  #2 unwraps a gift, but can switch with #1 if she likes that one better.  #3 can switch her unwrapped gift with #1 or #2. . . etc etc until I get my gift (and these were like $2 from the discount store–fridge magnets, gift boxes, stationery, etc.etc–and I can have my pick of all of them!  :) 2.  We played the clothespin game that was suggested on an earlier thread:  everyone gets a clothespin when she enters.  If she crosses her legs (ankles didn’t count for us) or says "bride" in any form, the person who catches her gets her clothespin.  At the end of the shower, whoever has the most clothespins wins another of the gifts that we used in 1.         __sidebar:  another friend, who was responsible for giving out the clothespins, explained it this way:  "and you can’t say the B word–I mean the B word with an I in it–I mean the one that YOU are–I mean the one with a long I!!"  :)  We had a good laugh over my friend of nearly 15 years calling me a bitch!  :) 3.  We played "help Shannon pack her suitcase"  Everyone got a piece of paper.  We had to list things that conceivably I would pack–some were pretty silly, and some were just downright funny!!–and after the 5 mins was up, each person had to read the list off.  If someone else had thought of the same thing, they both had to cross it off their lists.   The person with the most un-crossed things wins.  (This is along the same lines as scattergories)  Some of the funnier answers:  Vaseline (this from my GRANNY no less), ginseng (we explained this to granny:  in case Jeff runs out of energy!) and a detailed first aid kit that included crutches and knee braces (this from the same friend that inadvertently called me a bitch above–who has a neon pink cast from ankle to thigh, and is glad that the bridesmaid dresses are kind of long!!  ;) Well, I hope this helps you all out some.  We had a blast.  I only had/am having one shower (all I wanted) and I am glad that the one I had went the way it did. P.S.  make sure the shower invitations get sent out in time.  Jennie sent the invitations out on 5-9 for a 5-21 shower.  She is about 2 1/2 hours away, drive time.  My family in New England (more a courtesy invite than anything else) got theirs by 5-12, but some people around where I live are still getting theirs.  Mild downer, because I know a couple more people would have come if they had known in time, and we couldn’t get hold of everyone in time.  (there was an rsvp)  But it was still loads of fun! also:  I got to unwrap all the leftover gifts from the games!  Since I graduated from GMU that morning, and everyone was nice to me all day, I felt pretty good.  Yay.  :) — Shannon who is OUTTA HERE! and who is probably not supposed to be using her account any longer, but couldn’t refuse the opportunity.  

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I am looking for some games to play at a Bridal Shower.  If anyone knows of any , could you please write me back.                      Thank you,                      Lisa

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> I am looking for some games to play at a Bridal Shower.  If anyone knows of any > , could you please write me back. >                      Thank you, >                      Lisa

There two games that come to mind: 1) A questionairre about the bride and groom.  Such as where did they meet, when, where did he proposal, what kind of car does he drive, etc…. 2) Put things in separate paper bags.  And have the guest guess what they are as they are passed around.   You can get very creative with the items in the bag. If you know what I mean.

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>I am looking for some games to play at a Bridal Shower.  If anyone knows of any >, could you please write me back. >                     Thank you, >                     Lisa

One good idea for the shower is to have small "gifts" for the guests… Have a timer set for a minute or two…whoever’s gift you are opening when the timer goes off gets a small gift. This is great because the other people don’t get bored while the bride-to-be opens all the gifts. Gift ideas may be picture frames, kitchen things, etc. Have fun… -nicole

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>I am looking for some games to play at a Bridal Shower.  If anyone knows of any >, could you please write me back. >                     Thank you, >                     Lisa

A fun one that I’ve played , the hostess puts 20-30 items on a serving tray, ie. toothbrush, condom, housekeys, phonebill, bobby pin, red socks (you get the picture) any household items will do. (Also works for baby showers using baby items). Each guest is given a pen and paper, then are told there are 26 items or however many you have. The tray is passed to each guest who get to study the tray for 20 seconds. When all have had a chance, the tray is hidden and with a 2 minute timer, everyone must write down how many things they can remember. Whoever gets the most correct wins a prize. At one shower the person who won got everything that was on the tray. Suzette

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