– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Since Ray has not posted this I thought some might find it interesting. > Tuesday December 28, 12:16 pm ET > New Y Spa Menu Features Services for Younger Cruisers > MIAMI, Dec. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ — Generation Y is getting a taste > of > adult treats — and treatments — with the introduction of Royal > Caribbean’s > Y spa, a menu of teen spa treatments and services specifically tailored to > the line’s younger guests. > "Y Spa provides the perfect opportunity for our teen guests to forget > about > school stress and return from vacation refreshed and ready to go," said

Man, times are changing…

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Since Ray has not posted this I thought some might find it interesting. Tuesday December 28, 12:16 pm ET New Y Spa Menu Features Services for Younger Cruisers MIAMI, Dec. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ — Generation Y is getting a taste of adult treats — and treatments — with the introduction of Royal Caribbean’s Y spa, a menu of teen spa treatments and services specifically tailored to the line’s younger guests. "Y Spa provides the perfect opportunity for our teen guests to forget about school stress and return from vacation refreshed and ready to go," said David Stanley, vice president, Fleet Operations Revenue, for Royal Caribbean International. "It is also a chance for mothers and daughters or fathers and sons to share some quality time while being pampered by our spa staff." Offered fleetwide to male and female guests ages 13 to 17, Y Spa features treatments including massages, facials, hair and nail treatments, and fitness classes. To melt muscle tension away, teens can choose a 25-minute aromatherapy massage or a Surfers Scrub. The Scrub, an invigorating sea salt scrub with seaweed, is perfect for tired muscles after a day of rock climbing onboard or exploring ashore. Moms and dads can get in on the special treats and spend time with their teens with a 25-minute Mother and Daughter Paradise Massage or a Father and Son Chill Out Massage. Teen cruisers can tackle skin problems with a 50-minute Acne Attack facial, featuring an advanced oxygen treatment, or enjoy the sweet scents of a Fabulous Fruity facial that deep cleans skin with a mixture of organic, fresh fruits. Teens looking for a safe tanning alternative can take advantage of the Fake Bake — an invigorating body scrub followed by an application of self- tanning cream to the face and body. For special evenings out at the teen disco, Royal Caribbean’s salons offer styling sessions with a personalized consultation followed by color and a cut, as well as 25-minute manicures or 45-minute pedicures. At the gym, fitness buffs wanting to stay in shape on vacation can sign up for the Fitness Frenzy package. Participants sweat it out in three specialized boot-camp style classes run by the ships’ fitness staff and also receive a personalized metabolism test. Teen guests must receive parental consent to receive treatment from the Y Spa menu. Only teens 16 years or older will be able to participate in the Fitness Frenzy classes. Prices range from $23 for a manicure to $100 for a Stylin’ Session, which includes a personal consultation, color and cut. The Y Spa treatments were developed by Elemis for the Royal Caribbean day spas, which are operated by Steiner Leisure Management. Royal Caribbean International is a global cruise vacation company with 19 ships in service and two more under construction. The company also offers unique cruisetour vacations in Alaska, Canada and Europe. Additional information can be found on the company’s web site at http://www.royalcaribbean.com or by calling 800-327-6700.

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Having been a past passenger on Princess you have now stepped up to quallity with HAL.  Holland America is awesome for service and food. The Zuirdam is terrrific as well.  The moment you step on board, a white-gloved steward will escort you to your stateroom where you will find all the comforts of home, as well as a few of the surprises that have made Holland America Line the world’s finest premium cruise line. Throughout your voyage with us, attentive cabin stewards provide unobtrusive service, replenishing ice and arranging fresh fruit, turning down beds and leaving Sweet Dreams chocolates. Our gracious crew members dedicate themselves to your satisfaction and are known for impeccable five-star service. On average, our staterooms are 25 percent larger than on other ships in our category, giving you more room to stretch out. All staterooms include self-controlled air conditioning; a telephone and closed circuit TV; luxurious soaps, shampoos and lotions; music channel system; and 24-hour complimentary room service.   Guests of Holland America Line already enjoy the most spacious and elegant accommodations in premium cruising. Ongoing enhancements include these additional amenities: – Premium Plush Euro-Top mattresses* – Highest-quality cotton bed linens – Large, plush towels and deluxe terry bathrobes – Massage shower heads – Lighted, magnifying make-up mirrors – Salon-quality dryers – Welcome basket of fresh fruit – Elegant stainless-steel ice buckets and beverage serving trays   variety of wonderful ways

I’m booked!  Just made my arrangements to sail solo on the Zuiderdam on December 11th.  Need to get outta here!  Should be interesting sailing solo, but hey, I need the R&R for a week, and I can take along books, the iPod, workout at the gym, etc.  Didn’t get to take any time off between starting my new job, so I told them I needed to hit the road in December.  Going with an outside cabin to keep $ down…  I’m sure I’ll miss my balcony , but decided to buy a leather jacket for the winter instead lol.  Anyone else sailing on this trip by any chance?  Have to go hit the various cruise boards and make some new friends in advance. Anyhow, happy to be on the high seas again in just a month (perpetual late booker that I am….)  Will get to go to my first private island (weather permitting of course) so that should be interesting.  Caused a bit of a stir on the Cruise Critic boards asking if there was a nude bathing area on Half Moon Cay…..ooops!  HAL, watch out, here I come! Jeff

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I’m pushing the envelope here Lee lol!  Actually, the thread turned up some leads and it looks like a little nude sunbathing might work on HMC in a remote area.  F*ck it, I’m going to go off and give it a whirl! Looking forward to bringing down the median age of my sailing….. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(weather permitting of course) so that should be interesting.  Caused a >bit of a stir on the Cruise Critic boards asking if there was a nude >bathing area on Half Moon Cay…..ooops!  HAL, watch out, here I come! > I don’t think nude sun bathing and HAL go together.

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> I’m pushing the envelope here Lee lol!  Actually, the thread turned up > some leads and it looks like a little nude sunbathing might work on HMC in > a remote area.  F*ck it, I’m going to go off and give it a whirl! > Looking forward to bringing down the median age of my sailing…..

Enjoy.  I understand completely… I had to do a "post surgery" get away a few weeks ago myself. –Tom

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>>I’m pushing the envelope here Lee lol!  Actually, the thread turned up >some leads and it looks like a little nude sunbathing might work on HMC >in a remote area.  F*ck it, I’m going to go off and give it a whirl! >Check with folks working on board, particularly dancers.   Often >they have some place that they sneak away to to get away from >PAX.

I wouldn’t mind doing some other nude activities with some of the dancers… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Looking forward to bringing down the median age of my sailing….. >Do what you can, Jeff — but there’s only one of you…

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> I’m booked!  Just made my arrangements to sail solo on the Zuiderdam on > December 11th.  Need to get outta here!  Should be interesting sailing > solo, but hey, I need the R&R for a week, and I can take along books, > the iPod, workout at the gym, etc.  

I sailed solo on Zuidy last March and LOVED it! No problems meeting people while on board . The maitre d’ did a great job – I was seated at a table with several others who were also travelling solo so that was a starting point. Really enjoyed spreading out in my cabin – using ALL the drawers (even if I only put one thing in them) and ALL the hangers. Quite a luxury. By the way…you might just get an upgrade to a dreamy verandah. I booked an obstructed view guarantee. First actual assigned cabin was a regular outside. 24 hours before the cruise I was upgraded to a verandah. I felt incredibly spoiled the whole week. I’m booked on the Oosterdam this coming March and plan to invest in the weekly pass to the "Thermal Suite". One of my table mates took the plunge and couldn’t stop talking about it all week – seems like a lot of $$ to spend on heated tile chaises, aromatherapy steam and that special hydrotherapy pool – but I’m DOIN’ IT!!! Lee

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>I have read elsewhere that the CD on the Zuiderdam is very friendly and >hip (it’s the new HAL after all lol….) so I plan on asking him and the >usual suspects.  I want Half Moon Cay to be Full Moon Cay lol!

Was a lady by the name of Dottie a few months ago

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You’re probably right, lol, but maybe someone could sit on my back while I do pushups or something.  Wonder how people in the Soviet bloc used to work out lol… Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > right jeff those bouncy ball exercises are gonna pump up your chest, > big time.

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Lee — some good ideas there.  I did book a specific cabin (outside) and it looks like the sailing is just about sold out.  I will go look at the termal suite thingee…sounds nice.  Hope to get a nice dinner table with a nice mix of folks.  And or, people who like either martinis or roulette lol…. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m booked!  Just made my arrangements to sail solo on the Zuiderdam on >December 11th.  Need to get outta here!  Should be interesting sailing >solo, but hey, I need the R&R for a week, and I can take along books, >the iPod, workout at the gym, etc.   > I sailed solo on Zuidy last March and LOVED it! No problems meeting > people while on board . The maitre d’ did a great job – I was seated > at a table with several others who were also travelling solo so that > was a starting point. Really enjoyed spreading out in my cabin – using > ALL the drawers (even if I only put one thing in them) and ALL the > hangers. Quite a luxury. > By the way…you might just get an upgrade to a dreamy verandah. I > booked an obstructed view guarantee. First actual assigned cabin was a > regular outside. 24 hours before the cruise I was upgraded to a > verandah. I felt incredibly spoiled the whole week. > I’m booked on the Oosterdam this coming March and plan to invest in > the weekly pass to the "Thermal Suite". One of my table mates took the > plunge and couldn’t stop talking about it all week – seems like a lot > of $$ to spend on heated tile chaises, aromatherapy steam and that > special hydrotherapy pool – but I’m DOIN’ IT!!! > Lee

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>>I have read elsewhere that the CD on the Zuiderdam is very friendly and >hip (it’s the new HAL after all lol….) so I plan on asking him and the >usual suspects.  I want Half Moon Cay to be Full Moon Cay lol! > Was a lady by the name of Dottie a few months ago

Yep, I don’t usually care too much for CDs, but Dottie is ok, and willing  to try new things (she ran an afternoon disco in the crows nest for Eileen and I).  This was totally new for HAL.  So I don’t see why she wouldn’t be willing to do a nude sunbathing party for Jeff, Howie

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You could probably ask the dude who runs the fitness center to do that for you, Jeff.  Especially the something (lol). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You’re probably right, lol, but maybe someone could sit on my back while > I do pushups or something.  Wonder how people in the Soviet bloc used to > work out lol… > Jeff > right jeff those bouncy ball exercises are gonna pump up your > chest, big time.

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> I’m booked on the same cruise Dec 11th.  This long awaited from my last > cruise Nov 2003 to Canada/New England on Norwegian Dream. > I tried to book the private cabana on HMC about a month ago.  Was told they > are already booked up.  Has anyone booked the private cabana on HMC?  Sounds > like a great place to have a party.  They weren’t there last year when I was > on the Zuiderdam. > Ellen

There are only 4 of them, if I remember correctly, and suite passengers get priority on booking.  My wife and I almost booked one last Jan, but we decided at the last minute that it was too far for her to walk.  They are really not very attractive. Howie

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Hmmmmm, to get a GPS or not???? Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Cool!  Maybe I need to get a GPS thingee??  I def will bring my little >binoculars.  Thanks Lee. > Here’s my waypoint for Princess Cays, if you want to find it on a map: > W  PRNCAY N24 37.5992 W076 11.0764 > Fri Apr 14 14:55:48 1995 14-APR-95 14:55 > ….collected with a $500+ GPS that I recently sold to a cow-orker > for $20.    Maybe onboard art isn’t such a bad investment!

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> Uh oh, Houston we have a problem, lol.  Hmmmm, that could be a > challenge.  I can deal with a good machine workout, such as their > limitations may be, but I round it out with some good dumbbell work….I > do flat bench flys with 50# in each hand….hmmmm….. > This may not work!  Ok….maybe need to learn the bouncey ball exercises. > Jeff

right jeff those bouncy ball exercises are gonna pump up your chest, big time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  what’s > really sorry, however, are the dumbells, which only go up to a max of > 37.5 lbs. > Howie

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I’m booked on the same cruise Dec 11th.  This long awaited from my last cruise Nov 2003 to Canada/New England on Norwegian Dream. I tried to book the private cabana on HMC about a month ago.  Was told they are already booked up.  Has anyone booked the private cabana on HMC?  Sounds like a great place to have a party.  They weren’t there last year when I was on the Zuiderdam. Ellen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m booked!  Just made my arrangements to sail solo on the Zuiderdam on > December 11th.  Need to get outta here!  Should be interesting sailing > solo, but hey, I need the R&R for a week, and I can take along books, > the iPod, workout at the gym, etc.  Didn’t get to take any time off > between starting my new job, so I told them I needed to hit the road in > December.  Going with an outside cabin to keep $ down…  I’m sure I’ll > miss my balcony , but decided to buy a leather jacket for the winter > instead lol.  Anyone else sailing on this trip by any chance?  Have to > go hit the various cruise boards and make some new friends in advance. > Anyhow, happy to be on the high seas again in just a month (perpetual > late booker that I am….)  Will get to go to my first private island > (weather permitting of course) so that should be interesting.  Caused a > bit of a stir on the Cruise Critic boards asking if there was a nude > bathing area on Half Moon Cay…..ooops!  HAL, watch out, here I come! > Jeff

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> lmao. no way would they arrest you, dude. but if the ship goes to st. > martin, you can always wait, and get nekkid (always liked the way they > said "naked" when i lived in texas) with others on orient beach.

They might not arrest him but they might put him off the ship at the next port. — Charles

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Uh oh, Houston we have a problem, lol.  Hmmmm, that could be a challenge.  I can deal with a good machine workout, such as their limitations may be, but I round it out with some good dumbbell work….I do flat bench flys with 50# in each hand….hmmmm….. This may not work!  Ok….maybe need to learn the bouncey ball exercises. Jeff

  what’s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> really sorry, however, are the dumbells, which only go up to a max of > 37.5 lbs. > Howie

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>>lmao. no way would they arrest you, dude. but if the ship goes to st. >martin, you can always wait, and get nekkid (always liked the way they >said "naked" when i lived in texas) with others on orient beach. > They might not arrest him but they might put him off the ship at the > next port.

lol. no way, charles.

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> No palm trees???  :(  Hmmmmm…. > Not sure they would arrest a guest for being naked….I would think not > (doesn’t lead to total guest satisfaction) unless you were right in > people’s faces.  I’ll nose around and see if its doable.  And I am

lmao. no way would they arrest you, dude. but if the ship goes to st. martin, you can always wait, and get nekkid (always liked the way they said "naked" when i lived in texas) with others on orient beach. > definitely doing late seating.  I like my day to last and like my early > evening to hit the gym and other stuff….6 pm is just too early for me > to eat generally!

the gym on the zuidy is kind of lame. they have the standard machines, and of course, like most ships except for carnival, no barbells.  what’s really sorry, however, are the dumbells, which only go up to a max of 37.5 lbs. Howie

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Cool!  Maybe I need to get a GPS thingee??  I def will bring my little binoculars.  Thanks Lee. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Now this is going to sound stupid, but is HMC really an island?  I know > It’s actually Little San Salvador Island.    24 34N  75 56W > If you’re looking on a map/chart, it’s east-south-east from Eleuthera. > Princess Cays is on the southwestern tip of Eleuthera, about 12 > miles from HMC. > If you’re on a high enough deck on a ship at one, you can often > see a ship at the other.

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No palm trees???  :(  Hmmmmm…. Not sure they would arrest a guest for being naked….I would think not (doesn’t lead to total guest satisfaction) unless you were right in people’s faces.  I’ll nose around and see if its doable.  And I am definitely doing late seating.  I like my day to last and like my early evening to hit the gym and other stuff….6 pm is just too early for me to eat generally! Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Jeff, > Half Moon Cay is basically scrub and away from the beach areas not much > else.  The only place you can get out of the sun are the HAL provided > beach shelters, and the picnic area.  There are no tall palm trees.  It > is part of the Bahamas.  A skeleton crew remains behind to clean-up and > prepare for the next HAL ship.  But at night most of the workers hop a > boat and head for Bahama main islands.  I don’t know if Bahama security > guards are empowered to make arrests.  I wouldn’t want to be the only > one on the island minus swim trunks to find out what could happen if > caught.  If you don’t mind being with a lot of gay men, Atlantis > periodically charters Carnival ships and has an entire clothing optional > section of sun deck. > Don’t waste your time on some of these cruise companion sites.  Just > arrange for a late seating in the main dining room and select a table > for 6.  You’re bound to hit it off with at least 2.  From there you can > build.  I take the late seating because that way I don’t have to rush > back for dinner.  If the ship is in port for a while, I can do more > stuff and still make dinner.  Also, I’ve found that tables at the late > seating are more mellow and friendly.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Now this is going to sound stupid, but is HMC really an island?  I > know some of the private islands are but penisulas, etc.  Is there > anything else on HMC besides HMC?  Do people live there?  Just > wondering what there might be to explore, since I won’t be in the sun > every second I’m sure.  I am sure to have a blast regardless…..try > to make fun wherever I may be! > Jeff > Been on the ship twice, Jeff. Each time, there were enough younger, > and much younger people to have a good late night time.  Half Moon > Cay is one of the nicest cruise-ship private islands around.  Never > found a nude bathing area on the island; but if you walk all the way > down to the end of the beach (easy for someone in halfway decent > shape), you will find a considerable amount of privacy.  Have a blast. > Howie

Jeff, Half Moon Cay is basically scrub and away from the beach areas not much else.  The only place you can get out of the sun are the HAL provided beach shelters, and the picnic area.  There are no tall palm trees.  It is part of the Bahamas.  A skeleton crew remains behind to clean-up and prepare for the next HAL ship.  But at night most of the workers hop a boat and head for Bahama main islands.  I don’t know if Bahama security guards are empowered to make arrests.  I wouldn’t want to be the only one on the island minus swim trunks to find out what could happen if caught.  If you don’t mind being with a lot of gay men, Atlantis periodically charters Carnival ships and has an entire clothing optional section of sun deck. Don’t waste your time on some of these cruise companion sites.  Just arrange for a late seating in the main dining room and select a table for 6.  You’re bound to hit it off with at least 2.  From there you can build.  I take the late seating because that way I don’t have to rush back for dinner.  If the ship is in port for a while, I can do more stuff and still make dinner.  Also, I’ve found that tables at the late seating are more mellow and friendly. —  To  email me, Edit "xt" from my email address.   Brian M. Kochera    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"  View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

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I have read elsewhere that the CD on the Zuiderdam is very friendly and hip (it’s the new HAL after all lol….) so I plan on asking him and the usual suspects.  I want Half Moon Cay to be Full Moon Cay lol! Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m pushing the envelope here Lee lol!  Actually, the thread turned up >some leads and it looks like a little nude sunbathing might work on HMC >in a remote area.  F*ck it, I’m going to go off and give it a whirl! > Check with folks working on board, particularly dancers.   Often > they have some place that they sneak away to to get away from > PAX. >Looking forward to bringing down the median age of my sailing….. > Do what you can, Jeff — but there’s only one of you…

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Now this is going to sound stupid, but is HMC really an island?  I know some of the private islands are but penisulas, etc.  Is there anything else on HMC besides HMC?  Do people live there?  Just wondering what there might be to explore, since I won’t be in the sun every second I’m sure.  I am sure to have a blast regardless…..try to make fun wherever I may be! Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Been on the ship twice, Jeff. Each time, there were enough younger, and > much younger people to have a good late night time.  Half Moon Cay is > one of the nicest cruise-ship private islands around.  Never found a > nude bathing area on the island; but if you walk all the way down to the > end of the beach (easy for someone in halfway decent shape), you will > find a considerable amount of privacy.  Have a blast. > Howie

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>I’m pushing the envelope here Lee lol!  Actually, the thread turned up >some leads and it looks like a little nude sunbathing might work on HMC >in a remote area.  F*ck it, I’m going to go off and give it a whirl!

Jeff, Hubby and I were on the Maasdam in 2001 with RSVP.  As you are on the ship facing the island, walk ALL the way to the end (to the left) and around the point. It’s very remote, beautiful and, at least on our trip, there were several guys sans suits down there.  After awhile, we were the only ones and had some fun of our own!  There was one point where we had to walk out into the water around some rocks but it was only waist high and we had our stuff in plastic bags.  The walk is about 3.5 to 4 miles one way (that’s what the life guard said anyway). We had enough time to get the last tender back to the ship.  One of my fonder memories.  Also on our trip, about a half mile from the HAL compound, some of guys were nude but then it was an RSVP cruise! Doug

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m booked!  Just made my arrangements to sail solo on the Zuiderdam on > December 11th.  Need to get outta here!  Should be interesting sailing > solo, but hey, I need the R&R for a week, and I can take along books, > the iPod, workout at the gym, etc.  Didn’t get to take any time off > between starting my new job, so I told them I needed to hit the road in > December.  Going with an outside cabin to keep $ down…  I’m sure I’ll > miss my balcony , but decided to buy a leather jacket for the winter > instead lol.  Anyone else sailing on this trip by any chance?  Have to > go hit the various cruise boards and make some new friends in advance. > Anyhow, happy to be on the high seas again in just a month (perpetual > late booker that I am….)  Will get to go to my first private island > (weather permitting of course) so that should be interesting.  Caused a > bit of a stir on the Cruise Critic boards asking if there was a nude > bathing area on Half Moon Cay…..ooops!  HAL, watch out, here I come! > Jeff

Been on the ship twice, Jeff. Each time, there were enough younger, and much younger people to have a good late night time.  Half Moon Cay is one of the nicest cruise-ship private islands around.  Never found a nude bathing area on the island; but if you walk all the way down to the end of the beach (easy for someone in halfway decent shape), you will find a considerable amount of privacy.  Have a blast. Howie

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Ditto! Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Annie!  Sorry to hear you are still having problems but it is nice to see > you here.  Moving is a pain isn’t it?  Well when you can get touch ok?  I do > miss hearing from you. UM MOM Susan >hi all >hope the rest of you are doing ok…still using my husband’s >computer..we arent totally hooked up yet..still have over 20 boxes to >unpack…still need to get bookshelves, shades and some other >stuff..house is still being painted(outside) >still in a pretty bad bout with bleeding, pain, fever and D…but was >thinking…20 years ago when it was like that i was in the >hospital..heck even 10 years ago i would have been..between learning >more about handling it and the new meds(6mp, cipro) i can stay at home >and even do some moderate activities like unpacking, some shopping >etc…and all without prednisone >debs i will call u when things are more settled… >i will try to get on the board more often to post.but i am staying out >of the political discussions <g> ..never talk politics or religion >with friends<g> >but u all go ahead…i love reading your "debates"… >take care all… hi carole…glad we got together..u were the best >thing about seattle <g> >love from annie

– remove YOURFOOT before responding

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Annie, No pred? I’m jealous. (Kidding, I know it’s tough!)  Two weeks ago I started bleeding and cramping again, not even off the pred yet.  I can’t complain though, the weaning is going better this time and we’ve had a beautiful fall so far here in British Columbia. I’ve had my daughter (and some energy) at the parks every day. Hang in there, I bet things settle down as your home settles down. I think my bleeding tied into a death in my family. It’s been improving as we grieve less. Have you tried any relaxation stuff? When I can I meditate and use aromatherapy. If it doesn’t help my bum it sure helps my heart and head. I must admit that the times I need it most are the times that are the hardest to do it. Take care and don’t push yourself. NinaW

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> Hi Annie!  Sorry to hear you are still having problems but it is nice to see > you here.  Moving is a pain isn’t it?  Well when you can get touch ok?  I do > miss hearing from you. UM MOM Susan

thanks susan..we are coming to florida in december..i will give u a call..annie

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> Ditto! > Debs

hi debs will give u a call after next week sometime..its nuts til then with painters arriving after 630am and being in and out of the house all the time…and all the stuff we have to do here…its taken me 2 hours to unpack one box(it had all kinds of junk in it..) take care..nice weather we are having at least… annie

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Ok I look forward to it. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Annie!  Sorry to hear you are still having problems but it is nice to > see > you here.  Moving is a pain isn’t it?  Well when you can get touch ok?  I > do > miss hearing from you. UM MOM Susan > thanks susan..we are coming to florida in december..i will give u a > call..annie

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Don’t feel pressured. Just call me when it is a good time for you. See you soon, Debs >Ditto! >Debs > hi debs > will give u a call after next week sometime..its nuts til then with > painters arriving after 630am and being in and out of the house all > the time…and all the stuff we have to do here…its taken me 2 hours > to unpack one box(it had all kinds of junk in it..) > take care..nice weather we are having at least… > annie

– remove YOURFOOT before responding

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Oh, shucks, that’s what they all say!  Despite all the work, you sound glad to be home.  Butyou are missing St. Helens blow, and we got rain again this week…lots of rain… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->take care all… hi carole…glad we got together..u were the best >thing about seattle <g> >love from annie

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> Oh, shucks, that’s what they all say!  Despite all the work, you sound > glad to be home.  Butyou are missing St. Helens blow, and we got rain > again this week…lots of rain… >take care all… hi carole…glad we got together..u were the best >thing about seattle <g> >love from annie

carole i can miss the rain..we are having gorgeous fall weather…in the 70’s in the day and cool at night..sunny, breezy…the boston i remember <g> as for st helens…been there…seen that…wouldnt want to get close up and personal now…nothing exciting like hurricanes here …or volcanoes..just calm and quiet and perfect(until january when it gets darn cold <g>..then i will remember january in seattle walking along the sammamsish river in a t shirt and jeans..and being too warm <g> love annie ps..i have stopped bleeding for the most part..the D is almost gone and the pain is a lot less…i think i am coming out of this one in spite of all the stress and chaos here..

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That’s great news..keep it up, girl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->ps..i have stopped bleeding for the most part..the D is almost gone >and the pain is a lot less…i think i am coming out of this one in >spite of all the stress and chaos here..

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hi all hope the rest of you are doing ok…still using my husband’s computer..we arent totally hooked up yet..still have over 20 boxes to unpack…still need to get bookshelves, shades and some other stuff..house is still being painted(outside) still in a pretty bad bout with bleeding, pain, fever and D…but was thinking…20 years ago when it was like that i was in the hospital..heck even 10 years ago i would have been..between learning more about handling it and the new meds(6mp, cipro) i can stay at home and even do some moderate activities like unpacking, some shopping etc…and all without prednisone debs i will call u when things are more settled… i will try to get on the board more often to post.but i am staying out of the political discussions <g> ..never talk politics or religion with friends<g> but u all go ahead…i love reading your "debates"… take care all… hi carole…glad we got together..u were the best thing about seattle <g> love from annie

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Hi Annie!  Sorry to hear you are still having problems but it is nice to see you here.  Moving is a pain isn’t it?  Well when you can get touch ok?  I do miss hearing from you. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hi all > hope the rest of you are doing ok…still using my husband’s > computer..we arent totally hooked up yet..still have over 20 boxes to > unpack…still need to get bookshelves, shades and some other > stuff..house is still being painted(outside) > still in a pretty bad bout with bleeding, pain, fever and D…but was > thinking…20 years ago when it was like that i was in the > hospital..heck even 10 years ago i would have been..between learning > more about handling it and the new meds(6mp, cipro) i can stay at home > and even do some moderate activities like unpacking, some shopping > etc…and all without prednisone > debs i will call u when things are more settled… > i will try to get on the board more often to post.but i am staying out > of the political discussions <g> ..never talk politics or religion > with friends<g> > but u all go ahead…i love reading your "debates"… > take care all… hi carole…glad we got together..u were the best > thing about seattle <g> > love from annie

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>I had a home made version I called my smoking straw. >I took a soda fountain straw and stuffed about a filter’s worth of cotton in >it.  I would use different aroma therapy scents to give it a taste. >Still have one in my car…….just in case.

I use cinnamon sticks. Have them all over the place. You can draw through it like a cigarette. For those times when I just need something top hold or put in my mouth. Trying to stay away from the sweets since I have gained my 10 pounds 5 times over already. :b -Angie — 2m 3d 6:14 smoke-free, 1,931 cigs not smoked, $244.27 saved, 6d 16:55 life saved

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> Has anyone here used the nicotine inhalers?  Nicotrol inhalers? > If so, can you share info about them – did they work for you – if so, > why, do you think – and if not, also why?  Is there anything to watch > out for?  Any particular way you should use them? > I’ve been to the web site, so I’ve gotten information there – but I’d > like to know about real world use.  <g> > I see a lot of posts about the patch, and about the gum, but haven’t > noticed any about the inhalers…?

j, I used the inhaler to great success. I am now quit for nearly 5 years! It certainly takes the edge off. Good luck with it! Jez.

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Hi J, how was that first day?  Way to go! I used the inhaler last spring for a month and half.  I didn’t smoke, but I also didn’t break ANY habit or addiction.  It fed into the habit too well. We have two additctions to break when we quit smoking…the chemical dependancy to nicotine & the oral thing.  IMHO, using the inhaler is smoking w/o the smoke, there’s no change in habit or curing of addiction. (plus everyone told me that it looked like I was sucking on a tampon! LOL!)…Then again, if it works for ya…go for it. You can do this!!! Cat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone here used the nicotine inhalers?  Nicotrol inhalers? > If so, can you share info about them – did they work for you – if so, > why, do you think – and if not, also why?  Is there anything to watch > out for?  Any particular way you should use them? > I’ve been to the web site, so I’ve gotten information there – but I’d > like to know about real world use.  <g> > I see a lot of posts about the patch, and about the gum, but haven’t > noticed any about the inhalers…?

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I had a home made version I called my smoking straw. I took a soda fountain straw and stuffed about a filter’s worth of cotton in it.  I would use different aroma therapy scents to give it a taste. Still have one in my car…….just in case. Chris 3M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is very useful info Clarrie, thanks. > I had terrible problems in the beginning, for the same reason, until a > poster mentioned > ‘Endit’ > I checked it out in google and sent off for it.  it was a real help! > Just a plastic cigarette looking thing with NO nicotine, but it was > the sucking action and the fiddling action that helped me. > Maybe this product could help J? > Just my 2p > (helpfully) > Julia > >Has anyone here used the nicotine inhalers?  Nicotrol inhalers? > >If so, can you share info about them – did they work for you – if > so, > >why, do you think – and if not, also why?  Is there anything to > watch > >out for?  Any particular way you should use them? > >I’ve been to the web site, so I’ve gotten information there – but > I’d > >like to know about real world use.  <g> > >I see a lot of posts about the patch, and about the gum, but > haven’t > >noticed any about the inhalers…? > Hi J, > I haven’t used the inhaler myself, but a woman in my RL quit group > did > use it.  She said that for her, it was very helpful.  She was an > older > woman who had smoked for a long, long time and had very strong > associations between doing certain things and smoking.  She had a > lot > of stress/family problems, resulting in a lot of stressful phone > conversations, which she had found impossible to do without smoking. > For her, the inhaler worked for situations like that, on the phone > etc.  She also was quite a ‘nervy’ person who tended to fidget alot, > one of those people who say smoking gives them something to do with > their hands, and again she said the inhaler really helped her with > that.  As my group finished after a few weeks, I don’t know how she > got on with quitting in the longer term, but certainly she found the > inhaler really did help at the beginning. > I was thinking of her when I read your other thread, about women and > smoking rituals. > I know you said you’ve read the manufaturers site, but here’s > another > sites which may help

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyl… ng/nicotine_inhalator.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sorry I can’t give you a first hand account (lozenges did it for > me), > hopefully someone else will be able to.  I think, if you feel that > this is going to be the best method for you, then suck it and see! > If > it doesn’t work, you can always switch to something else. > good luck > love > Clarrie > — > 9M+  AS3 Kiwi Kwitter (01/02/03) > ~email/msn: clarriegrundy at hot mail dot com~ > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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can’t take all the credit…….I read about it here before I made one.  :) Chris 3M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My gosh!  I remember reading about that!  That was YOU!  Ha!  My > memory is better than I thought! >I had a home made version I called my smoking straw. >I took a soda fountain straw and stuffed about a filter’s worth of cotton in >it.  I would use different aroma therapy scents to give it a taste. >Still have one in my car…….just in case. >Chris >3M

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This is very useful info Clarrie, thanks. I had terrible problems in the beginning, for the same reason, until a poster mentioned ‘Endit’ I checked it out in google and sent off for it.  it was a real help! Just a plastic cigarette looking thing with NO nicotine, but it was the sucking action and the fiddling action that helped me. Maybe this product could help J? Just my 2p (helpfully) Julia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Has anyone here used the nicotine inhalers?  Nicotrol inhalers? >If so, can you share info about them – did they work for you – if so, >why, do you think – and if not, also why?  Is there anything to watch >out for?  Any particular way you should use them? >I’ve been to the web site, so I’ve gotten information there – but I’d >like to know about real world use.  <g> >I see a lot of posts about the patch, and about the gum, but haven’t >noticed any about the inhalers…? > Hi J, > I haven’t used the inhaler myself, but a woman in my RL quit group did > use it.  She said that for her, it was very helpful.  She was an older > woman who had smoked for a long, long time and had very strong > associations between doing certain things and smoking.  She had a lot > of stress/family problems, resulting in a lot of stressful phone > conversations, which she had found impossible to do without smoking. > For her, the inhaler worked for situations like that, on the phone > etc.  She also was quite a ‘nervy’ person who tended to fidget alot, > one of those people who say smoking gives them something to do with > their hands, and again she said the inhaler really helped her with > that.  As my group finished after a few weeks, I don’t know how she > got on with quitting in the longer term, but certainly she found the > inhaler really did help at the beginning. > I was thinking of her when I read your other thread, about women and > smoking rituals. > I know you said you’ve read the manufaturers site, but here’s another > sites which may help

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sorry I can’t give you a first hand account (lozenges did it for me), > hopefully someone else will be able to.  I think, if you feel that > this is going to be the best method for you, then suck it and see! If > it doesn’t work, you can always switch to something else. > good luck > love > Clarrie > — > 9M+  AS3 Kiwi Kwitter (01/02/03) > ~email/msn: clarriegrundy at hot mail dot com~

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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>Has anyone here used the nicotine inhalers?  Nicotrol inhalers? >If so, can you share info about them – did they work for you – if so, >why, do you think – and if not, also why?  Is there anything to watch >out for?  Any particular way you should use them? >I’ve been to the web site, so I’ve gotten information there – but I’d >like to know about real world use.  <g> >I see a lot of posts about the patch, and about the gum, but haven’t >noticed any about the inhalers…?

Hi J, I haven’t used the inhaler myself, but a woman in my RL quit group did use it.  She said that for her, it was very helpful.  She was an older woman who had smoked for a long, long time and had very strong associations between doing certain things and smoking.  She had a lot of stress/family problems, resulting in a lot of stressful phone conversations, which she had found impossible to do without smoking. For her, the inhaler worked for situations like that, on the phone etc.  She also was quite a ‘nervy’ person who tended to fidget alot, one of those people who say smoking gives them something to do with their hands, and again she said the inhaler really helped her with that.  As my group finished after a few weeks, I don’t know how she got on with quitting in the longer term, but certainly she found the inhaler really did help at the beginning. I was thinking of her when I read your other thread, about women and smoking rituals.   I know you said you’ve read the manufaturers site, but here’s another sites which may help http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyl… sorry I can’t give you a first hand account (lozenges did it for me), hopefully someone else will be able to.  I think, if you feel that this is going to be the best method for you, then suck it and see! If it doesn’t work, you can always switch to something else.   good luck love Clarrie — 9M+  AS3 Kiwi Kwitter (01/02/03) ~email/msn: clarriegrundy at hot mail dot com~

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WOW 12 baths a day… and you did not get water logged? Rick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t do it!  Just take a bath instead.  For the first three months of > my quit I took up to 12 per day as a way to relax and deal with the > brain fog.  Took one just about every time I had a really horrible > craving. > Three months turned into three years.  Woo Hoo.  The healing power of > water : ) > Adrienne > p.s. Darjeeling tea with milk and honey doesn’t hurt either.

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Eucalyptus is nice Dion y1 — Singing in the sunshine, laughing in the rain

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mmmmmmhmmmmmmm. > For me it was jasmine scented bath salts (or the same flavor oil) in > the bath, then jasmine shower jel, jasmine body mist for when the bath > was over.  I bought the "Healing Garden Aromatherapy" brand and tried > the tangerine flavor too.  Now when I have extra money I get the > vanilla or sweet pea at Bath and Body Works. > At some point in there I started to *really* smell my hair. > Mmmmmmmmm > With hope and heart, > Kathleen > — > If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, > because you know what you are. > ~Mother Theresa > : Don’t do it!  Just take a bath instead.  For the first three months > of > : my quit I took up to 12 per day as a way to relax and deal with the > : brain fog.  Took one just about every time I had a really horrible > : craving. > : > : Three months turned into three years.  Woo Hoo.  The healing power > of > : water : ) > : > : Adrienne > : > : p.s. Darjeeling tea with milk and honey doesn’t hurt either. > :

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Mmmmmmhmmmmmmm. For me it was jasmine scented bath salts (or the same flavor oil) in the bath, then jasmine shower jel, jasmine body mist for when the bath was over.  I bought the "Healing Garden Aromatherapy" brand and tried the tangerine flavor too.  Now when I have extra money I get the vanilla or sweet pea at Bath and Body Works. At some point in there I started to *really* smell my hair. Mmmmmmmmm With hope and heart, Kathleen — If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, because you know what you are. ~Mother Theresa

: Don’t do it!  Just take a bath instead.  For the first three months of : my quit I took up to 12 per day as a way to relax and deal with the : brain fog.  Took one just about every time I had a really horrible : craving. : : Three months turned into three years.  Woo Hoo.  The healing power of : water : ) : : Adrienne : : p.s. Darjeeling tea with milk and honey doesn’t hurt either. :

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Don’t do it!  Just take a bath instead.  For the first three months of my quit I took up to 12 per day as a way to relax and deal with the brain fog.  Took one just about every time I had a really horrible craving. Three months turned into three years.  Woo Hoo.  The healing power of water : ) Adrienne p.s. Darjeeling tea with milk and honey doesn’t hurt either.

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Does anyone have any personal recommendations for a hotel / apartment in Barcelona and Sitges for a family of 4. Children aged 6 and 4. Thanks, Mike.

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serve.co.uk> writes >Does anyone have any personal recommendations for a hotel / apartment in >Barcelona and Sitges for a family of 4. Children aged 6 and 4.

We stayed at the Antemare in Sitges last year. http://www.antemare.com/ingles/ It’s modern, reasonably plush, in a nice quiet position just off the sea front.  It’s a short walk into the town centre area with most of the restaurants – just enough to build up an appetite. The list rate is quite expensive but there are offers on their web site and – when we booked, at least – on http://www.laterooms.com — UK Aromatherapy Information and Products: http://www.celtic-flame.co.uk

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sit on the porch and smoke, like we did before we quit. It grounds you > to the now of the situation, nd stills everything for a moment, but > other things can do it too. I have my own suggestions if you would > like to hear them. > Sure, I would love to hear them. > I ended up not smoking, even went out shopping and resisted the urge to > buy a pack.  In my head I was simply postponing the decision.  They’re > always going to be available if I am desperate.  But that’s the > question: am I desperate to smoke?  I don’t think so… > A couple people asked me why not go back on Zyban.  Well, there are a > bunch of reasons.  The first is because the higher dosage didn’t really > work too well with me, and led me to prematurely quit taking it.  The > lower dosage seemed to be beneficial in more ways than not thinking > about smoking; I was able to block other negative thoughts I’d been > having, thoughts which have since resurfaced.  I like the idea of being > drug free– if I’m going to quit nicotine, why not quit everything, have > a naturally clear mind?  I’m afraid of getting too comfortable on an > anti-depressant, never really getting to the root of the problem and > becoming dependent.  Medications and psychologists were pushed on me > throughout my childhood, for all the wrong reasons, and I have a deep- > rooted resentment.  I also don’t have anyone in my life right now that’s > supportive of any decisions I make.  To the contrary, if I revealed that > I was once again taking an anti-depressant (given the bad experiences > I’ve had in the past), I’d have to endure an assault of criticism.  So > it’d be something to keep a secret, and I hate secrets, I’m naturally an > honest person.  That’s the gist of it.  Regardless of all that, I’ve > decided to .. well, not decide.. by trying it and seeing what happens. > If I don’t want to take it, I can just stop at any time, there isn’t too > much to fear in terms of withdrawal.  I only hope I’m doing the right > thing, because I already feel guilty about it.

I take a high dose but i’m on it for depression primarily (i’ve been taking it since before it was available in canada without special paperwork and a bottle with a sticker on it delievered to my shrink with give only to:ME in big letters.As stated elsewhere i haven’t always taken the full maount i’m supposed to and i’m trying to make sure i do…maybe it will help quit. I was forced on drugs a couple of times as a kid. It took a lot to force me to admit i needed medication as an adult and particularly that i had adhd (all family problems were blamed on my adhd). I had to come to the point of knowing my mother’s "history" of my life isn’t that accurate seeing as i haven’t lived there since i was 13, and even before they abused me for years and won’t admit it. She knows i take drugs..i believe she believes it prooves her right…i believe she’s said so (its been 5 years since we talked except briefly three years ago except for the very occaisional put my brother on the phone please…even then i usually got my dad). It came to the point when i had to say well they may have blamed the adhd but there are plenty of parents that raise adhd parents that raise kids without abusing them, and if my behaviour wasn’t the best, well i wasn’t an adult abusing a child (there is one year of therapy free to you…although it might take you a year of therapy to *believe* it…i knew it when i started, it took 11 months to believe it.) Take what you need to take, and give yourself some time to get used to quitting smoking…i don’t knw the figures for zyban but i know that it is customary to keep people who have had a depression on AD’s for about 6 months after they started or if it took a while to find right drug 6 months after they got better… Marcie > phase > Three weeks, five days, 13 hours, 59 minutes and 51 seconds. > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

=—

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Hi, Phase, Here’s what I am responding to in your last message: "I’m just … I don’t know… craving a moment of peace, how I used to go outside (never really smoked indoors) and take in the night, feel at ease with myself and the world.  I know that had nothing to do with smoking, but doing it without the cigarettes is not something I’ve ever been able to do.  It’s not the same." O.K., I’m going to tell you what I have found that helps, NOT is the same, but I feel that, for me, can be a familiar ritual with time. And a lot healthier. Now, keep in mind, this is just a suggestion. I don’t know how you look at being at ease, etc. while smoking, but one of my obsessions was watching the smoke, especially at night, and twisting the cig in my fingers for different effects. Also, smoke rings. Loved them. And NOW I have come to the conclusion that I can do the same exact thing with incense, NOT smoke, smells beautiful and has the same effect, only better because of the aroma therapy aspect of it. Nag Champa is my favorite, but I do love sandalwood, too. And you can whirl the stick, just like a cig, and make smoke rings too. No, it isn’t EXACTLY the same. But you know, I was bitching earlier in the week that I couldn’t have regular coffee anymore because of the caffeine, and some lovely person here said "How about something soothing like chamimilloe (sp?) and make a new ritual for yourself?". I thank whoever said that, I’ll have to go back and see who it was, because it works, it really does. I don’t know about humans in general but I know that if I do something at the same time for a wek or two, it’s a habit. And old habits, healthier habits can take the place. I also agree with Elle, in her message after that meditation is also really helpful. You don’t have to be a guru, or know a bunch of stuff, it just lets your mind unfold, that’s all. If you could, find a special place where you like to sit outside, get a stick or two of incense, take a little blanket and a drink and just watch the smoke and contemplate the sky. If you give it chance, I bet it would help. Just one more thing about the wanting to be natural and drug free, with out any anti-depressants…. getting to the root of it isn’t not taking meds. Depression is a condition that most of the time requires meds, however light, to make your brain work right, I’m sure you already know this if you have been thru years of it, I’m sorry, I’m not trying to talk down to you. It’s just thatif your depression is chemical, you can’t be med-free and be o.k. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Thank God for the meds! I also agree with Elle about not letting everyone know your business is not the same as lying or being dis-honest, not at all! I’m a fiercely independent and private person and I will tell somebody to f*** off quick if they start getting into my private business. I hope this helps a little bit, but just know that I do care about your emotional and physical well being and I think everyone here does. One more thought, yoga is great, too. But that’s just a thought. It works for me, not for everyone, I know. Lisa One week, two days, 1 hour, 47 minutes and 15 seconds. 181 cigarettes not smoked, saving $20.78. Life saved: 15 hours, 5 minutes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sit on the porch and smoke, like we did before we quit. It grounds you > to the now of the situation, nd stills everything for a moment, but > other things can do it too. I have my own suggestions if you would > like to hear them. > Sure, I would love to hear them. > I ended up not smoking, even went out shopping and resisted the urge to > buy a pack.  In my head I was simply postponing the decision.  They’re > always going to be available if I am desperate.  But that’s the > question: am I desperate to smoke?  I don’t think so… > A couple people asked me why not go back on Zyban.  Well, there are a > bunch of reasons.  The first is because the higher dosage didn’t really > work too well with me, and led me to prematurely quit taking it.  The > lower dosage seemed to be beneficial in more ways than not thinking > about smoking; I was able to block other negative thoughts I’d been > having, thoughts which have since resurfaced.  I like the idea of being > drug free– if I’m going to quit nicotine, why not quit everything, have > a naturally clear mind?  I’m afraid of getting too comfortable on an > anti-depressant, never really getting to the root of the problem and > becoming dependent.  Medications and psychologists were pushed on me > throughout my childhood, for all the wrong reasons, and I have a deep- > rooted resentment.  I also don’t have anyone in my life right now that’s > supportive of any decisions I make.  To the contrary, if I revealed that > I was once again taking an anti-depressant (given the bad experiences > I’ve had in the past), I’d have to endure an assault of criticism.  So > it’d be something to keep a secret, and I hate secrets, I’m naturally an > honest person.  That’s the gist of it.  Regardless of all that, I’ve > decided to .. well, not decide.. by trying it and seeing what happens.   > If I don’t want to take it, I can just stop at any time, there isn’t too > much to fear in terms of withdrawal.  I only hope I’m doing the right > thing, because I already feel guilty about it. > phase > Three weeks, five days, 13 hours, 59 minutes and 51 seconds. > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  The > lower dosage seemed to be beneficial in more ways than not thinking > about smoking; I was able to block other negative thoughts I’d been > having, thoughts which have since resurfaced.  I like the idea of being > drug free– if I’m going to quit nicotine, why not quit everything, have > a naturally clear mind? > Can you see how this thought possibly sabotages you? > Zyban/wellbutrin is a *medication* that is prescribed for smoking cessation > because it is effective in helping people in your situation.  You don’t have > to stay on it forever, but how long is a month or three of Zyban treatment > compared to the years you’ve been poisoning yourself with smokes? > Phase, my dear, you don’t have to fix everything all at once, and for many > it’s a big mistake to try to get well too fast.  You really *can* give > yourself permission to take this a step at a time.  That’s what I had to do. > You don’t have to overthink it beyond where you are right now, today. Today > you’re a guy who’s about to give up his quit.  Don’t you think that’s where > your focus belongs right now?  On staying quit today, no matter what tools > you may need to use to do it?

She knows of what she speaks, Phase.  What she says in this last paragraph is so true.  TODAY is all that matters if you really want to stay quit.  No matter how you choose to do it, you’ll find a way that works for YOU.  Best wishes… Sally Quit for 11 months with the help of the patch, Welbutrin, and AS3…not necessarily in that order… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  I’m afraid of getting too comfortable on an > anti-depressant, never really getting to the root of the problem and > becoming dependent.  Medications and psychologists were pushed on me > throughout my childhood, for all the wrong reasons, and I have a deep- > rooted resentment. > And today also a challenge to work through it, if you want to– or not– > that is entirely up to you.  You don’t have to go the Zyban route, but you > don’t have to let a decision that it isn’t for you sabotage your efforts to > quit, either.  You can use different tools, if you want.  There are lots of > tools available to you.  The CBT stuff will help– keep working on that– > learn meditation if you want– practice reframing your thoughts to get rid > of that mindset of deprivation you’re nursing… all sorts of effective > tools are available if you want to use them. >  I also don’t have anyone in my life right now that’s > supportive of any decisions I make. > This is not true; you have us.  We’ll support you no matter what decision > you make.  Promise. >   To the contrary, if I revealed that > I was once again taking an anti-depressant (given the bad experiences > I’ve had in the past), I’d have to endure an assault of criticism. > Huh?  From who?  Whoever this is, they have no right to stand between you > and effective treatment for any problem, whether it be depression or smoking > cessation or both.  Tell these people to fuck off, and do what you need to > do to take care of yourself.  You don’t need approval from anyone else to > take care of yourself. > So > it’d be something to keep a secret, and I hate secrets, I’m naturally an > honest person. > Then don’t keep it a secret, though my honest response to this is to want to > suggest to you that some things are simply none of other peoples’ business. > It’s okay to not tell everyone everything.  Are these people grilling you on > every detail of your life?  If so, do they really have a right to do that? > Why is it a secret to erect healthy boundaries about what you are and are > not willing to share with them– especially if their tendency is to tear > down your efforts toward self-improvement? >   That’s the gist of it.  Regardless of all that, I’ve > decided to .. well, not decide.. by trying it and seeing what happens. > If I don’t want to take it, I can just stop at any time, there isn’t too > much to fear in terms of withdrawal.  I only hope I’m doing the right > thing, because I already feel guilty about it. > Lose the guilt and do what you need to do.  This may be the most important > thing you will ever do for yourself; you owe it to yourself to throw > everything you can at this addiction. > Hugs, > elle

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I tell myself "I could smoke" on a regular basis.  I have an emotional disorder, and sometimes things get out of control, and I know that if I smoked things would be a bit less out of control.  But I haven’t done it in two years, because… I don’t exactly know why I don’t, but I am comitted to making smoking my very *last* option, and I haven’t gotten to that point yet. If I did smoke, it sure as hell wouldn’t be nicotine free cigs.  I don’t get the point of them.  They aren’t a "loophole" product.  They contain a lot of the stuff that cigarettes do, as well as, at least in some cases, a low level of nicotine.  It’s not like "alcohol free" wine.  I would still be breathing in smoke every day, I just wouldn’t get the benefits of the nicotine.  Heck, I’d rather have something that delivered nicotine without cigs than cigs that didn’t deliver nicotine. It sounds as if you are on the right track with the cognitive thinking.   It is really a valuable took for reducing negative thinking.  But it takes time for it to become automatic.  You’ve only been quit a few weeks.  You *will* learn to deal with negative things without smoking in time.  It just takes practice – learning new habits.  Give it some time.  You don’t sound as if you are desperate for a smoke – just frustrated with how hard it is. But it will get easier. You will learn to deal with things. BTW, I’m going to put in a plug for a favorite book.  "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook".  It has two chapters dedicated to mind management with exercises to help with negative thoughts.  I’ve been applying them for a bit now, and I’m already seeing progress.  It’s widely available – I got mine at Barnes and Noble – and not expensive.  Very worthwhile. Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used > to or whatever. > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. > So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I > know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me > feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which > makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me > anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and > whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing > with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only > positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a > moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then? > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts. > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

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Response:

>  The > lower dosage seemed to be beneficial in more ways than not thinking > about smoking; I was able to block other negative thoughts I’d been > having, thoughts which have since resurfaced.  I like the idea of being > drug free– if I’m going to quit nicotine, why not quit everything, have > a naturally clear mind?

Can you see how this thought possibly sabotages you? Zyban/wellbutrin is a *medication* that is prescribed for smoking cessation because it is effective in helping people in your situation.  You don’t have to stay on it forever, but how long is a month or three of Zyban treatment compared to the years you’ve been poisoning yourself with smokes? Phase, my dear, you don’t have to fix everything all at once, and for many it’s a big mistake to try to get well too fast.  You really *can* give yourself permission to take this a step at a time.  That’s what I had to do. You don’t have to overthink it beyond where you are right now, today.  Today you’re a guy who’s about to give up his quit.  Don’t you think that’s where your focus belongs right now?  On staying quit today, no matter what tools you may need to use to do it? >  I’m afraid of getting too comfortable on an > anti-depressant, never really getting to the root of the problem and > becoming dependent.  Medications and psychologists were pushed on me > throughout my childhood, for all the wrong reasons, and I have a deep- > rooted resentment.

And today also a challenge to work through it, if you want to– or not– that is entirely up to you.  You don’t have to go the Zyban route, but you don’t have to let a decision that it isn’t for you sabotage your efforts to quit, either.  You can use different tools, if you want.  There are lots of tools available to you.  The CBT stuff will help– keep working on that– learn meditation if you want– practice reframing your thoughts to get rid of that mindset of deprivation you’re nursing… all sorts of effective tools are available if you want to use them. >  I also don’t have anyone in my life right now that’s > supportive of any decisions I make.

This is not true; you have us.  We’ll support you no matter what decision you make.  Promise.   To the contrary, if I revealed that > I was once again taking an anti-depressant (given the bad experiences > I’ve had in the past), I’d have to endure an assault of criticism.

Huh?  From who?  Whoever this is, they have no right to stand between you and effective treatment for any problem, whether it be depression or smoking cessation or both.  Tell these people to fuck off, and do what you need to do to take care of yourself.  You don’t need approval from anyone else to take care of yourself. > So > it’d be something to keep a secret, and I hate secrets, I’m naturally an > honest person.

Then don’t keep it a secret, though my honest response to this is to want to suggest to you that some things are simply none of other peoples’ business. It’s okay to not tell everyone everything.  Are these people grilling you on every detail of your life?  If so, do they really have a right to do that? Why is it a secret to erect healthy boundaries about what you are and are not willing to share with them– especially if their tendency is to tear down your efforts toward self-improvement?   That’s the gist of it.  Regardless of all that, I’ve > decided to .. well, not decide.. by trying it and seeing what happens. > If I don’t want to take it, I can just stop at any time, there isn’t too > much to fear in terms of withdrawal.  I only hope I’m doing the right > thing, because I already feel guilty about it.

Lose the guilt and do what you need to do.  This may be the most important thing you will ever do for yourself; you owe it to yourself to throw everything you can at this addiction. Hugs, elle

Response:

> sit on the porch and smoke, like we did before we quit. It grounds you > to the now of the situation, nd stills everything for a moment, but > other things can do it too. I have my own suggestions if you would > like to hear them.

Sure, I would love to hear them. I ended up not smoking, even went out shopping and resisted the urge to buy a pack.  In my head I was simply postponing the decision.  They’re always going to be available if I am desperate.  But that’s the question: am I desperate to smoke?  I don’t think so… A couple people asked me why not go back on Zyban.  Well, there are a bunch of reasons.  The first is because the higher dosage didn’t really work too well with me, and led me to prematurely quit taking it.  The lower dosage seemed to be beneficial in more ways than not thinking about smoking; I was able to block other negative thoughts I’d been having, thoughts which have since resurfaced.  I like the idea of being drug free– if I’m going to quit nicotine, why not quit everything, have a naturally clear mind?  I’m afraid of getting too comfortable on an anti-depressant, never really getting to the root of the problem and becoming dependent.  Medications and psychologists were pushed on me throughout my childhood, for all the wrong reasons, and I have a deep- rooted resentment.  I also don’t have anyone in my life right now that’s supportive of any decisions I make.  To the contrary, if I revealed that I was once again taking an anti-depressant (given the bad experiences I’ve had in the past), I’d have to endure an assault of criticism.  So it’d be something to keep a secret, and I hate secrets, I’m naturally an honest person.  That’s the gist of it.  Regardless of all that, I’ve decided to .. well, not decide.. by trying it and seeing what happens.   If I don’t want to take it, I can just stop at any time, there isn’t too much to fear in terms of withdrawal.  I only hope I’m doing the right thing, because I already feel guilty about it. phase Three weeks, five days, 13 hours, 59 minutes and 51 seconds. —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Hi, Phase, I have just been quit this time for a little over a week, but I quit with this group a three years ago and stayed quit for over a year. The difference is no NRT’s this time. But what I wanted to say is that I screwed up my quit last time because I just wanted to smoke, just once, I had just gone back to college and I just wanted to do it, once. But I couldn’t do it once because it took three to get comfortable with them stinging my throat and burning my eyes, and then I siad the hell with it and now here I am. Ultimately, the choice is yours, and I can’t say one word about it. I do tell myself that I can smoke, it IS a mind thing, and to me personally, it’s just a comfort for me to say to myself, You can choose to smoke anytime you want, you’re an adult and no one can take that choice away from you". I guess it’s just knowing that I COULD if I wanted to helps, it makes me feel like they are not gone forever, does that make any sense at all? I think I kinda know a little of what you are feeling about the war, I was watching it Friday and I said to my daughter how terrified the people must be, the children, and then the next day they showed the little camel around the oil well fires…it broke my heart. I don’t want to debate either, but know someone else shares your views for a little while, and yes, when things get so bad, it would be nice to go sit on the porch and smoke, like we did before we quit. It grounds you to the now of the situation, nd stills everything for a moment, but other things can do it too. I have my own suggestions if you would like to hear them. Anyway, let me quit dribbling on, it’s Sunday morning and I have too much time on my hands, sorry for the speech! I hope you feel better soon, whatever you decide. Lisa One week, one day, 17 hours, 46 minutes and 56 seconds. 174 cigarettes not smoked, saving $20.02. Life saved: 14 hours, 30 minutes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used > to or whatever.   > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. > So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I > know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me > feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which > makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me > anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and > whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing > with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only > positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a > moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then?   > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts. > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know!   > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

Don’t be stoopid…don’t talk yourself into busting your quit.  FMD is definitely something to be proud of….wtg! Sally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used > to or whatever. > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. > So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I > know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me > feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which > makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me > anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and > whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing > with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only > positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a > moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then? > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts. > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

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Response:

>Thanks for all the responses.  I still don’t know what I’m going to do, >but you’ve allowed me to put things in better perspective.

Hmm….from personal experience… don’t waste your money, your quit, or your health.   They put the idea of smoking back in my head, and it took around a week (at least) to stop thinking of buying another pack.   What IS wrong with getting back on zyban/wellbutrin?   Allie

Response:

Yeah, what Ozmee said.  Every word. Great post, Ozmee! hugs, elle — "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." -James Branch Cabell

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think that is a normal feeling friend.  True, you can load up and > smoke yourself to death today.  So what, you can smoke anytime you > want right?  But the reason you are not smoking is because you decided > to stop smoking.  It isn’t any big deal to stick a cigarette or > whatever in your mouth, the big deal is not to do it.  My opinion is > that you need to give yourself ‘permission’ to not smoke, permission > to decide not to smoke and permission to tell your nicodemon to go > jump in the lake when it tries to convince you that you are denying > yourself by not smoking. > Remember, the smoke causes cyanide, would you pop a cyanide pill into > your mouth on purpose???  Smoking helps encourage emphysema.  I have > read you can get emphysema as you age anyway, but perhaps smoking for > 40-50 years means the difference between being tethered to an oxygen > tank or NOT tethered. > It’s OK not to smoke. > The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I > used > to or whatever. > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m > working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. > So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I > know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make > me > feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, > which > makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me > anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and > whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am > dealing > with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only > positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a > moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then? > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts. > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via > Encryption =—

Response:

>So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I >know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me >feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which >makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me >anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and >whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing >with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only >positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a >moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question:

Phase, Smoking made all off my problems go away. If I had a problem at work I’d get up and go outside and take a smoke break. If smoking bugged me at home I’d go outside and have a smoke. No more problem to worry about. I was in my own world. It was my self appointed time-out/coffee break/. Because I smoked I could just step aside. Why? Because I smoked and had my own permission. I hate to sound like the poster board on quiting but quiting IS a process. We learn that we can lay in bed on a spring day w/o having to run downstairs to light up. We learn that the movie "The Titanic" is 3hrs. and 20 frickin minutes long and I don’t care because I don’t smoke. We learn that that yellow crap on the plastic walls in the smoking cell of you local airport sticks, stinks and is SICK. Quiting is a new lesson that we are teaching ourselfs. The pain and the pure YUCKY fealings are real. The changes in the way we live our lives is real. But it does get better the further away you get from it. Time in is time out. Good luck. Craig Watts OF

Response:

> just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts.

Whats wrong with going on the zyban again…i haven’t had a chance to read too many posts here but i’ve already come across someone who stopped the patch at a month (i expect if they are here they are probably a regular smoker, the only one’s in canada that make it through the program in less than 6 weeks if they follow the whole thing are those that smoke less than 14 cigarettes a day) and no you stopped your zyban in less than a month. Zyban is cheap…whats wrong with a little help? Even with cheap american cigarettes. Its about $50 for a month here on slow release i believe….and i take a very high dose (as Wellbutrin for depression, i’ve been taking it before it could be rx’d in Canada based on compasionate grounds ie i’d taken everything else, they thought mixing it and another anti-depressant (AD) might work…and it did better than before although we only found a really good combo about 7 years later Marcie I am one of those people with depression that just has to take some of the pills for life, and go off a few when/if i am planning to get pregnant. This is not that common and comes partially from the fact that i’m bipolar 2 (instead of bipolar 1 with long stretches or just Major affective disorder with stretches of normal) which tend to be depressed most of the time unless we go a little high…no normal period unless on the way up or down usually. I doubt it has anything to do with taking zyban for quitting smoking although i am far from an expert on that topic YMMV marcie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

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Response:

Hi, Thanks for all the responses.  I still don’t know what I’m going to do, but you’ve allowed me to put things in better perspective. I don’t think my intention was to buy nic-free cigarettes and smoke them regularly.  Just tonight.  I’m subconsciously always looking for excuses, like for instance I’m moving a week from today, so I can tell myself "This can be the last time I smoke before living in my new apartment.  Then I’ll start with a clean slate there."  Except I know that I had similar thoughts when I moved here from my last place, and when I moved there, etc. I’m just … I don’t know… craving a moment of peace, how I used to go outside (never really smoked indoors) and take in the night, feel at ease with myself and the world.  I know that had nothing to do with smoking, but doing it without the cigarettes is not something I’ve ever been able to do.  It’s not the same. There’s so much going on in the world right now that is tearing at my heart, well beyond anything that’s directly happened in my life.  I don’t want to get into debate with anyone with whether or not war is justified, but to me, I’ve searched my soul and can’t find any reason to take the life of another, especially in this case, and I can’t imagine the terror of those people, having to wait until the next bomb falls, seeing their city in flames.  Again I don’t want to get into any argument about this, I don’t feel like it’s worth it, I have no intention of changing anyone’s mind.  But it’s like, right now, there is no thought I can turn to without feeling dismay.  And there’s nothing I can really do about it… So, I mean, that’s kind of why I wish I could go out and have a cigarette, it’s stupid, but it’s how I used to disconnect.  And it’d probably work.  Until the next time, and so on… Yeah, I know.   phase —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

Response:

I think that is a normal feeling friend.  True, you can load up and smoke yourself to death today.  So what, you can smoke anytime you want right?  But the reason you are not smoking is because you decided to stop smoking.  It isn’t any big deal to stick a cigarette or whatever in your mouth, the big deal is not to do it.  My opinion is that you need to give yourself ‘permission’ to not smoke, permission to decide not to smoke and permission to tell your nicodemon to go jump in the lake when it tries to convince you that you are denying yourself by not smoking. Remember, the smoke causes cyanide, would you pop a cyanide pill into your mouth on purpose???  Smoking helps encourage emphysema.  I have read you can get emphysema as you age anyway, but perhaps smoking for 40-50 years means the difference between being tethered to an oxygen tank or NOT tethered. It’s OK not to smoke.

The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used to or whatever. Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: I could smoke, yeah.  But what then? Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my stupid damaging thoughts. I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. phase Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! but I haven’t cheated thus far) —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups

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> I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get.

like John Dow said a few days ago: "God, we’d try anything, won’t we!" … and that INCLUDES getting pissed off at ourselves … and I agree with my fellow angel Kita give yourself a break, dearest Phase! > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far)

we forgive you now go to sleep May the road rise to meet you Gita

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If you’re looking for my opinion it’s that you need some more time to make this decision.  It’s too soon to decide right now if you should smoke again. At this time in your quit you are on the edge of it getting much better for you. Problems seldom go away overnight.  Whether you smoke or not. I don’t give a hoot one way or the other about your meter. I’m pulling for you. Kim 10M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used > to or whatever. > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. > So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I > know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me > feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which > makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me > anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and > whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing > with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only > positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a > moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then? > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts. > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know! > but I haven’t cheated thus far) > —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups > —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption

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> The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: > Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used > to or whatever.   > Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working > on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative > thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises > and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress.

Did you think quitting would fix them? Give yourself a break. > And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product,

As you go out and buy the product, therefore supporting "them"? > I could smoke, yeah.  But what then?  

Things would be just like it is now. Except you’d feel worse for letting yourself down. And you’d smell and be coughing. And you might be stuck in the mousetrap again. > Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s > been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to > just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my > stupid damaging thoughts.

Why not?(Go back on Zyban?) Or something similiar? > I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just > go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can > anticipate the responses I’m gonna get.

The three threes. One of those is 3 weeks. Maybe it’s coming a few days late for you. Mine came on day 20 I think. I imagine it’s like when the honeymoon wears off and someone realizes they said "til death do us part" to that person that can’t pick up their socks. Phase, it’s just a phase. You won’t feel like this forever. At least give it a few days to change. Don’t make any decisions now. Go to sleep, even if it’s 4 in the afternoon. Don’t do something you’ll regret on a moment’s notice. > phase > Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. > (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know!   > but I haven’t cheated thus far)

I don’t care what people do with their own meters. But I think the way you are rationalizing or warning about the above, is just junkie thinking. You are just quit when it’s convenient for you? Bah. Don’t smoke. Give your quit 24 hours, sleep on it. You wanted this quit, at least give it a chance. GL kita

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The question I am asking myself, I will pass along to you: Smoking is how I pretend to deal with emotional problems.  Or how I used to or whatever.   Since I quit, none of those problems have really gone away.  I’m working on it, I am; I’m trying to learn about CBT and how to conquer negative thoughts, i.e. cognitive distortions.  Despite doing written exercises and stuff, I haven’t made all that much progress. So I say to myself, I could smoke.  Those nicotine-free cigarettes.  I know, it won’t do anything to solve my problems.  It won’t even make me feel better.  And fuck them for making such a ‘loophole’ product, which makes me feel less guilty about trying them out (and don’t give me anything about how I’m still taking in all the chemicals and tar and whatnot, I know that– my chronic cough is still something I am dealing with, and I know that smoking will exacerbate it).  I think the only positive benefit would be that I could revel in some nostalgia for a moment.  Anyhow, it all comes down to a question: I could smoke, yeah.  But what then?   Or I could not… except, the question’s the same:  What then?  It’s been a month, and I’m struggling.  And I hate it.  I am so tempted to just go back on Zyban, say to hell with smoking and to hell with my stupid damaging thoughts. I’m kind of pissed off at myself.  I’ve almost made up my mind to just go and smoke a few.  I thought I’d run it by you, even though I can anticipate the responses I’m gonna get. phase Three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 26 seconds. (If I did smoke tonight, I wouldn’t reset my meter.  Just so you know!   but I haven’t cheated thus far) —-== Posted via Newsfeed.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups —= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers – Total Privacy via Encryption =—

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My wife and I visited the Carnival Legend today as part of the SSHSA. This is only our second visit to the NYC ports this year, the other visit was a few weeks earlier when we boarded, toured, and had a luncheon aboard the MS Rotterdam VI. It was a good day in the port as the Golden Princess was also docked as well as our old friend, the Zenith. For me, the Zenith was the best looking ship at port being a manageable size, having the most interesting paint scheme and seeming the most freshly painted, having her rakish look. The Legend is pretty slab-sided, plenty balconies, mostly white. The Golden looks like the Grand, lots of balconies, huge size, shopping cart handle at the stern. I’ll say the Golden/Grand are distinctive enough and definitely have a certain "presence" (that curiously the Voyager class lacks). So, the Legend is the second Carnival ship we’ve toured. The first was the Paradise, the final version of Carnival’s proven Fantasy class. We’ve not been aboard the big Destiny class, and the 86,000 or ton Legend is the 3rd of the Spirit class ships. I met up with rtc regular Joyce Rachelson and shared a table with her and others for lunch, and it was also was nice to meet up with some SSHSA/WSS regulars. Some of the SSHSA/WSS regulars are sailing aboard her right now on a 2 nighter to nowhere. The nature of a visit is somewhat similar to visiting a port on a cruise. You get a taste of the ship, an idea of the scenery, a flavor of some of the inhabitants. It’s  impossible to tell what the ship is like to sail aboard for a few days, so I can only give some impressions of a few hours onboard, and whatever comments I make about pax boarding were on for a 2 nighter, and not Carnival’s usual 7 night cruise. The Legend has made some progress over the Paradise. We saw one stateroom, an inside room. It didn’t seem to be much bigger than, say, 155 or so sq ft, but it was pleasant enough, and definitely upgraded over the Paradise staterooms. One of my observations about Carnival is that they play music in public areas louder than RCI and NCL and considerably louder than Celebrity and HAL and what I remember of Princess. Is it always this way? Can’t say. The Legend also has quite low ceilings in most public rooms. The atrium is about 10 or 11 decks, I’m guessing, and more rectangular than the rounded atrium of the Fantasy ships. The specialty restaurant sits at the top, in the funnel, and I was rather startled by how low the railings in the restaurant, overlooking the atrium, came up to the open area spanning 10 or so decks below. I seriously wondered if anyone could go over the railings and crash onto the bottom of the atrium in the event of a sudden lurch caused by rough seas. There’s also a plexiglass winding stairway that’s set at the highest point of the atrium that goes down one deck, connecting the levels of the restaurant. Walking on that was quite an experience, disconcerting to me, maybe panic evoking to someone with vertigo. The lunch was in the main dining room which is located in the stern of the ship and is two levels. It’s that way in many new ships, but the Legend doesn’t have the big open windows affording views that some of the other ships have. I guess HAL’s version will have more open windows and will have a different layout. As for the food, I’m not a big foodie, and it seemed fresh and well prepared. My wife’s comments were that they used the same garnishing for everything, the presentation wasn’t on HAL or Celebrity level, but neither one of us can say that we judged it as high a quality as what we had on HAL or Celebrity. But, this is just one lunch, and how representative it was, or how perhaps other entrees are, we don’t know. Carnival used Rosenthal China, Joyce noticed it right away, and I noticed they have a glass for white wine, a glass for red wine, and a water glass, just like Celebrity. HAL didn’t have particular glasses for particular wine on our luncheon. Later in the day the buffet was served in the lido area and we noticed a wide variety of food. We didn’t sample any but there seemed to be plenty of it and an outstanding variety of it, there were some lines but not any really long ones, though the area did seem crowded. And that’s a sense that we got while we were aboard, that the ship seemed crowded in the public areas. I think the ceiling height had something to do with it, or maybe it is just a concentration of the guests in mostly the atrium and surrounding areas and the lido area. I think an improvement over the Fantasy class is the gym area. It’s tiered now, so exercise equipment is on different levels, there are a few areas to relax. The massage rooms were very private, and one of the rooms had a very calming scent coming from it so I guess it was one of the aromatherapy rooms. There’s also plenty of massage rooms. Also, the gym area is located near the bow, and high up, like on most new ships, so pax can get nice views of the sea while working out. And there’s a fair amount of glass so you can look in many different directions and see your surroundings. Some similar areas to the Fantasy are the piano bar, the room is in the same layout, but the sports bar/lounge is different, the library is also an internet library and is quite small, there are actually more faux books in it that real books. There’s a small chapel, there’s an alleyway in an enchanted garden theme, a jazz club called Satchmo’s (after the legendary trumpeter) with pics of Armstrong around, a two deck or 3 deck show lounge at the bow like most new ships, so it has the features that one expects in Carnival. Deck areas were mostly on top but nicely divided, there are some plastic chairs that rock which my wife and I liked, the slide, aft pool, and there’s a teak promenade under the lifeboats and I’m not sure if it wraps fully around the ship or not. The atrium has a piano trio that welcomes in the passengers and pax are not escorted to their rooms (at least none that I observed). There’s also a table out with meat cuts placed on it, not sure if it was related to cooking or what it was. Most of the rooms in the ship have similar treatments and I found that it got monotonous after awhile. As expected from Carnival the ship areas are either very decorated, or over decorated, according to one’s tastes. I think only the show lounge, Satchmo, the disco, in some ways the dining room, don’t repeat the treatments but most of the rooms on the Carnival way street use the same elements. The ship is Millennium-sized, maybe a tick smaller, so I’m not sure if it is a size I feel comfortable with. The ship doesn’t really invite relaxation, I certainly didn’t feel that with the combination of the surroundings and loud music played everywhere, it feels designed to stimulate. I usually end up feeling inspired to sail aboard or not. So, this one is a unequivocal pass for my wife and me–far away from our style.  This is a winner for Carnival, it is an upgraded Carnival ship, this Spirit class. They can make as many of these as they’d like and I think they’ll be well received. For my wife and me it is not an alternative to a HAL, Celebrity, or Princess ship, nor does it feel as inviting to me as some RCI ships. And I have to say, though there are fun elements on the ship, and I’m sure it has the activities and entertainment to make it an entertaining cruise experience, with lots of choices for food of good quality and fine spa facilities, the ship’s a bit dull in its monotony from room to room creating for me a mono-mood feel, and was not as entertaining to tour as the Paradise. Ben S.

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>Dinner at Bahrs in >Highlands and then back home again.

Having grown up in Middletown, I remember eating at Bahr’s many times.  Didn’t know they were still there.  Is it still wonderful? Jo-Ann

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Moby’s is still there too…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dinner at Bahrs in >Highlands and then back home again. > Having grown up in Middletown, I remember eating at Bahr’s many times. Didn’t > know they were still there.  Is it still wonderful? > Jo-Ann

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Dinner at Bahrs in >>Highlands and then back home again. >Having grown up in Middletown, I remember eating at Bahr’s many times.  Didn’t >know they were still there.  Is it still wonderful? >Jo-Ann > I was surprised at what a nice meal we had last night, Jo-Ann! > Everything fresh and delicious. We were going to drive up to another > place in Bergen county that we frequent for dinner on Saturdays, but > saw Bahrs on our drive off Sandy Hook and decided to try them.  I’m > glad we did > They have a web site with a "Bahrs Cam", too: http://www.bahrs.com/ > Karen

Boy, does this bring back memories!  We lived just a block away from there in Highlands, when we assigned to Sandy Hook in the late 50’s! We went back to visit on an auto vacation in the late 90’s and ate there! Jean<~~~full of nostalgia after viewing the website~thanks Karen!

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is the clam hut still there?  remember eating there with my dad! — Sheree Join us on the SGC2003 to Bermuda http://www.hometown.aol.com/sgc2003 remove nospam to email

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Moby’s is still there too… > >Dinner at Bahrs in > >Highlands and then back home again. > Having grown up in Middletown, I remember eating at Bahr’s many times. > Didn’t > know they were still there.  Is it still wonderful? > Jo-Ann

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My wife and I are booked on Celebrity Galaxy out of Baltimore on July 29th. This is just our second cruise, and I am looking for opinions about the Spa treatments onboard.  Since we have 5 full days at sea, I thought it might be relaxing for both of us to get massages or other treatments.  Looking for opinions on quality / value??  Thanks.

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> My wife and I are booked on Celebrity Galaxy out of Baltimore on July 29th. > This is just our second cruise, and I am looking for opinions about the Spa > treatments onboard.  Since we have 5 full days at sea, I thought it might be > relaxing for both of us to get massages or other treatments.  Looking for > opinions on quality / value??  Thanks.

I have nothing helpful to add about the Aquaspa service, BUT I can tell you that I took that cruise and you will have a lot of fun ! — If you flame me, then the terrorists have won.

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Peter, The spa aboard Galaxy is fabulous, and I’ve never experienced anything but excellent service from Steiner personnel. Spa treatments are often our biggest single expense item, and for good reason. They’re incredible! Quality is extremely high. Although prices tend to be about 25% higher than typical land-based offerings, I consider the whole package (treatment, ambience, etc.) to be very good value. This is my wife’s and my way of spoiling ourselves. Something we rarely (if ever) do between cruises. In May, a full-body massage aboard Mercury was approximately $65 for 30 minutes, and around $100 for an hour. Do the hour! You’ll feel like a new person. Enjoying an expert massage in a relaxing atmosphere, combined with the subtle movement of the ship is as close to Utopia as it gets. My wife also enjoys facials, and we both had a course of eye treatments on our last cruise. They both get top marks from us too. Occasionally you’ll encounter a little pressure to purchase Steiner products (usually associated with the treatment you just enjoyed). Try to resist making any purchases immediately after climbing down from the treatment table. It’s very easy to say "yes" when you’re feeling so relaxed The one exception is their pure lavender oil. We’ve found this to be a great buy. We loved Galaxy (and its Spa). I’m sure you will too Steve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My wife and I are booked on Celebrity Galaxy out of Baltimore on July 29th. >This is just our second cruise, and I am looking for opinions about the Spa >treatments onboard.  Since we have 5 full days at sea, I thought it might be >relaxing for both of us to get massages or other treatments.  Looking for >opinions on quality / value??  Thanks.

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Candy Does the Ionithermie treatment really work? And if it does, how long does it last? I have been tempted,but I have never tried it. I’m sailing on  Mercury in September so maybe…… Jean

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Don’t know much about the spa treatments, Peter, but you are on the same cruise I will be on with my mom. We are on Vista deck, and you? June

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My wife and I are booked on Celebrity Galaxy out of Baltimore on July 29th. > This is just our second cruise, and I am looking for opinions about the Spa > treatments onboard.  Since we have 5 full days at sea, I thought it might be > relaxing for both of us to get massages or other treatments.  Looking for > opinions on quality / value??  Thanks.

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> My wife and I are booked on Celebrity Galaxy out of Baltimore on July 29th. > This is just our second cruise, and I am looking for opinions about the Spa > treatments onboard.  Since we have 5 full days at sea, I thought it might be > relaxing for both of us to get massages or other treatments.  Looking for > opinions on quality / value??  Thanks.

I’d add only one caution to what others have said. On our last cruise, I had a foot massage that felt like exactly what I needed. However, the next day I had a rash on one foot, which I think came from an allergy to something in the oil she used. I have very sensitive skin; lots of allergies, and I need to be careful. I also had some prescription steroid skin stuff that fixed up the problem in a few days, so no big deal. If you have skin allergies, you might want try try something involving only a small area, like feet, and see how it works out. All the "aromatherapy" business sounds like an allergy minefield to me. I mentioned this to one of their masseuses once and she assured me that everything they use is "natural", as if everything I’m allergic to wasn’t. 73, JohnW

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If you can trust their measurements, I lost 13.5" (measured in 6 places, but that’s about 2" lost).  The first time I had ionithermie I sat in the sauna for 5 minutes before the treatment and when I was done (only had one that cruise) my thighs were incredibly tight.  I kept them moisturized and the effect seemed to last for weeks.  I had two in January and two in May, both without the sauna before, and the results were not as good.  The mud and electrodes were the same, as far as I could see.  If I were you, I’d sneak a sauna first.  The tightness was really remarkable… and well worth it (and they usually discount on port days). Candy <– would like a cabin next to the spa just for the aroma! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CandyDoes the Ionithermie treatment really work? And if it does, how > long does it last? I have been tempted,but I have never tried it. I’m > sailing on  Mercury in September so maybe……Jean

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I found that rather than go for the expensive massages and so forth, just using the Thalassotherapy spa was sufficient – it was better than any massage I have ever received. You switch from the Thalassotherapy spa to the steam room back to the spa. After a few switches you feel so relaxed it’s like you’re a wet noodle. Much better and cheaper than a massage. I would return to Celebrity for the Thalassotherapy pool alone. I had a deep tissue massage too and it was great. Heidi

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On our recent cruise on the Infinity to Alaska, my brother had a massage and said it was as good or better than his own masseuse.  My sister-in-law had a cellulite treatment and lost about an inch on each thigh.  She said it felt a little "weird", but liked the results and the service of the staff.  She used the Spa gym every day and gave it high marks.  The pool and hottubs in the spa are great and as suite occupants we had access to it (although I don’t think they were checking cabin assignments).  Try a sitdown in the sauna…on this ship there were great views of the Alaskan coastline  thru the large portholes, that beautiful aroma of cedarwood and it was incredibly quiet and peaceful. I had it all to myself one afternoon and it was heavenly!

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