Question:
> > we had almost unbelievable results with testing (and treating) for > "hidden" food allergies > the offending allergens in our son’s case turned out to be apples and > dairy (primarily)
Probably the attention and a bit of TLC, rather that ‘allergens’, fixed the problem, given that physical causes of bet-wetting are extremely rare.
Response:
>>I am interested to know how you son’s particular food allergies were >diagnosed. Are there tests? I have only heard of elimination testing >(perhaps the books I have read are all dated). Actually, I have heard >mention of some other forms of testing, but always with a caveat about >their reliability. What sort of testing worked for your son and what >sort of "allergist" would I need to look for? >Julie
the sort of testing is called challenge testing… it involves injecting a dilution of the suspected allergen into the skin then you wait 5-15 minutes and observe both the welt itself and the general state of the patient this method not only confirms that an allergen is a problem (by the reaction on the skin) but also is the same method used to find the answer. after an allergen is identified, the dilution is varied until a dose is found that turns OFF the symptoms this is referred to as the "neutralising dose" and is your treatment dosage from then on i saw, for example, one child of about 6 yrs old in the office being tested he was a very hyper kid, pulling at his mother’s hair , screaming, running around, generally unruly he was being tested for Pineapple and was having quite a reaction when the neutralising dose was found the result was almost miraculous…within 5 minutes he calmed down turned to his mother and said "i’d like to do some math problems now, can i have my book?" empirical evidence no doubt, but it was impressive to see, to say the least you need to find a complementary physician or alternative physician who does neutralising dose allergy therapy that’s what to ask about it’s sometimes called environmental allergy, although this does not guarantee that approach you still must inquire hope this helps — w2
Response:
> I am interested to know how you son’s particular food allergies were > diagnosed. Are there tests? I have only heard of elimination testing > (perhaps the books I have read are all dated). Actually, I have heard > mention of some other forms of testing, but always with a caveat about > their reliability. What sort of testing worked for your son and what > sort of "allergist" would I need to look for? > Hi, Julie
Look in your area for an "Applied kinesiologist" otherwise known as Touch for Health or Muscle Texting. It is a non invasive method for, amongst other things, allergy testing. I am a cynic but even I was impressed enough to do a course a few years ago. Do a search for kinesiology to see if there are web pages for any practitioners in your area. Graham — "New Pages" "New URL" "New Pages" "New URL" Graham Sorenson Guide to Aromatherapy URL http://www.pikeperry.co.uk/ppp/fragrant/index.htm
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> fwiw > we had almost unbelievable results with testing (and treating) for > "hidden" food allergies > the offending allergens in our son’s case turned out to be apples and > dairy (primarily) > putting those foods on a 5 day rotation and using neutralising dose > injections (weekly) stopped his bedwetting in 3 weeks. > we also found that restricting those foods to early in the day even on > permitted days helped > i’d STRONGLY recommend finding an alternative allergist for this problem > — > w2
I am interested to know how you son’s particular food allergies were diagnosed. Are there tests? I have only heard of elimination testing (perhaps the books I have read are all dated). Actually, I have heard mention of some other forms of testing, but always with a caveat about their reliability. What sort of testing worked for your son and what sort of "allergist" would I need to look for? Julie
Response:
> This referred only to 50% or so of enuresis–not all types. Of those types, > this is useful information. But the idea that an antihistamine counters this > suggests that the genetic basis is really not all that profound, and can be > influenced with traditional (and less imbalancing) approaches, just like > yesterday before this was announced.
The idea that eye glasses counter poor vision must also suggest to you that the genetic basis is not really all that profound (whatever that means), and can be influenced with traditional and less imbalancing approaches. Could you explain for the listening audience the difference between a ‘profound’ genetic difference and a ‘not so profound’ genetic difference? > As for the bedwetter being ‘to blame’ for this, there is nothing in this that > suggests that behavioral approaches aren’t effective in many of these cases. > Since the antihistmine is effective, behavioral change may be.
Well actually Paul, it does suggest that behavioral approaches are ineffective in around 50% of these cases, precisely the ones where the antihistimine is reputed to work. sdb —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : The other night on National Public Radio, there was a newspiece > : about bedwetting…they have discovered that persistant bedwetting > : (nightly, after age 2-3) is genetic in origin. Supposedly anyone > : with this genetic predisposition may be a persistant bedwetter, > : because the bladder does not develop the ability to shut down urine > : production during sleep, the bladder does not signal ‘fullness’ > : enough to wake the person, etc. In most kids this development > : occurs before 3, but with the persistant wetters it may take many > : years. The good news is that the development will eventually occur, > : and the bedwetter is in no way to blame for the problem. The > : newspiece did mention the nasal spray as being useful to help slow > : down urine production during sleep, which may give relief until the > : body eventually solves the problem itself. Sorry this is so vague, > : but it is from memory. > : > : — > : Troy M. Hash > This referred only to 50% or so of enuresis–not all types. Of those types, > this is useful information. But the idea that an antihistamine counters this > suggests that the genetic basis is really not all that profound, and can be > influenced with traditional (and less imbalancing) approaches, just like > yesterday before this was announced. > As for the bedwetter being ‘to blame’ for this, there is nothing in this that > suggests that behavioral approaches aren’t effective in many of these cases. > Since the antihistmine is effective, behavioral change may be. > —
I am just catching up on my reading of this newsgroup, and this thread caught my eye because my 8-year-old son just started using the DDAVP on 8 July. I apologize for talking about a pharmaceutical on this alternative newsgroup, but since someone else brought it up, I wanted to add my 2 cents. The PDR entry for DDAVP (Desmopressin Acetate) calls it an antidiuretic hormone affecting renal water conservation and a synthetic analogue of 8-arginine vasopressin. This doesn’t sound like an antihistimine to me, but I am no medical expert. Just FYI, my son, who wet 4-5 nights a week despite two long-term trials with an alarm, a couple months when we took him off dairy products, and a couple other tactics, has been dry since starting this. we have just been given the go-ahead to taper off. The idea, according to my pediatrician, is this medication "trains the glands". Theoretically, after 4-6 weeks (or less) on the medication, the child very slowly tapers off and then never has to use the medication again. If anyone is interested in the ultimate results, feel free to e-mail me in a couple months (but not after November, when my internet access will end). Julie
Response:
: I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. : My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over : her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since : 18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her : and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night : in her entire life~!) : Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we : have tried… : * Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and : retention of fluids. : * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. : * Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They : all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them : 3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is : still wetting. : * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. : * Alarm clock set for 2am. Let me suggest one considerably more simple idea: your daughter may seem abnormally warm. If she does, she may have a constitutional imbalance that allows Heat to accumulate in her inner organs. This is very commonly seen in adults. Consider this in your own experience. Some people feel a desire to urinate, but ignore it. Why? The Heat accumulates in the Bladder, since it is a ‘hollow organ,’ and that Heat stretches the bladder, causing the feeling of wanting to micturate. HOWEVER, since there is not actually sufficient fluid present to force us to stop and pee, since the mechanism of the bladder sphincter is designed to work with the heaviness of water not with Heat (which naturally rises rather than sinks). With a child, at night, the control on the sphincter is weak to begin with, and the stirring of the dreaming spirit (also due to Heat) moves the body’s Qi outwardly, carrying whatever water is present with it. This is why restriction of fluids doesn’t work. What can be done? First off, this is the most common cause of enuresis, but not the only one. If your child feels warm to the touch, if they have a damp head at night, if they seem to become exhausted easily, especially in the afternoon, or if they have hyperactivity, this is a reasonable diagnosis. There are, then, a variety of ways to nourish the underlying Cooling force of the body, and restore balance. It is also possible that this problem is due to an underlying –lack–of the ordinary warmth of the body–this would be seen in a child who was, naturally, always cold, not very active, prone to colds, and hard to awaken in the morning. There are very mild herbals that can be used to strengthen the sphincter–certainly vastly safer than antihistamines and other drug therapies. There is an OTC herbal formula available in Chinatown which is called Golden Lock Tea (Jin Suo Gu Jing Wan, spelled Chin So Ku Ching on the label). It is an astringent formula. It does not treat the underlying Heat (or other cause), but rather simply strengthens the sphincter. It is a possible starting point, and it also would be helpful if the diagnosis involves the other common mechanisms. It should cost about $3. —
Response:
: The other night on National Public Radio, there was a newspiece : about bedwetting…they have discovered that persistant bedwetting : (nightly, after age 2-3) is genetic in origin. Supposedly anyone : with this genetic predisposition may be a persistant bedwetter, : because the bladder does not develop the ability to shut down urine : production during sleep, the bladder does not signal ‘fullness’ : enough to wake the person, etc. In most kids this development : occurs before 3, but with the persistant wetters it may take many : years. The good news is that the development will eventually occur, : and the bedwetter is in no way to blame for the problem. The : newspiece did mention the nasal spray as being useful to help slow : down urine production during sleep, which may give relief until the : body eventually solves the problem itself. Sorry this is so vague, : but it is from memory. : : — : Troy M. Hash This referred only to 50% or so of enuresis–not all types. Of those types, this is useful information. But the idea that an antihistamine counters this suggests that the genetic basis is really not all that profound, and can be influenced with traditional (and less imbalancing) approaches, just like yesterday before this was announced. As for the bedwetter being ‘to blame’ for this, there is nothing in this that suggests that behavioral approaches aren’t effective in many of these cases. Since the antihistmine is effective, behavioral change may be. —
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|> >|> : : I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. >|> : : My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over >|> : : her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since >|> : : 18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her >|> : : and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night >|> : : in her entire life~!) >|> : : Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we >|> : : have tried… >|> : : * Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and >|> : : retention of fluids. >|> : : * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. >|> : : * Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They >|> : : all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them >|> : : 3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is >|> : : still wetting. >|> : : * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. >|> : : * Alarm clock set for 2am. >|> >The other night on National Public Radio, there was a newspiece about >bedwetting…they have discovered that persistant bedwetting (nightly, >after age 2-3) is genetic in origin. Supposedly anyone with this >genetic predisposition may be a persistant bedwetter, because the >bladder does not develop the ability to shut down urine production >during sleep, the bladder does not signal ‘fullness’ enough to wake >the person, etc. In most kids this development occurs before 3, >but with the persistant wetters it may take many years. The good >news is that the development will eventually occur, and the >bedwetter is in no way to blame for the problem. The newspiece >did mention the nasal spray as being useful to help slow down >urine production during sleep, which may give relief until the >body eventually solves the problem itself. Sorry this is so >vague, but it is from memory. >– >!!>>>> My Opinions Do Not Reflect Those Of My Employer <<<<!! >"You’ll be Absolutely Free, Only if you Want to Be…"F.Zappa
Until that happens, how about something practical like having her wear heavy duty diapers. A wet mattress can lead to a very unhealthy situation. — Ask for report: ARE FREE RADICALS STEALING YOUR HEALTH?
Response:
I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since 18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night in her entire life~!) Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we have tried… * Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and retention of fluids. * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. * Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them 3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is still wetting. * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. * Alarm clock set for 2am. PLEASE HELP! She is an extremely deep sleeper and from what I have learned, has not develped the part of the body that slows nightime urine production and…is incapable of rousing herself to the sensation. I know there is a place in Farmington Michigan that deals with bedwetting as a sleep disorder issue, but they are very expensive and not covered by health insurance. I guess I would be willing to try them if I had a glimpse of hope that they offered anything that we havn’t already tried. I have thought of taking her to a sleep disorder center that would be covered by insurance, but they appear to be oriented to the apnea stuff. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Please E-mail me if you have any help to offer. Thank You, Paiges’ MOM
Response:
|> |> : : I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. |> : : My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over |> : : her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since |> : : 18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her |> : : and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night |> : : in her entire life~!) |> : : Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we |> : : have tried… |> : : * Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and |> : : retention of fluids. |> : : * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. |> : : * Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They |> : : all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them |> : : 3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is |> : : still wetting. |> : : * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. |> : : * Alarm clock set for 2am. |> The other night on National Public Radio, there was a newspiece about bedwetting…they have discovered that persistant bedwetting (nightly, after age 2-3) is genetic in origin. Supposedly anyone with this genetic predisposition may be a persistant bedwetter, because the bladder does not develop the ability to shut down urine production during sleep, the bladder does not signal ‘fullness’ enough to wake the person, etc. In most kids this development occurs before 3, but with the persistant wetters it may take many years. The good news is that the development will eventually occur, and the bedwetter is in no way to blame for the problem. The newspiece did mention the nasal spray as being useful to help slow down urine production during sleep, which may give relief until the body eventually solves the problem itself. Sorry this is so vague, but it is from memory. — !!>>>> My Opinions Do Not Reflect Those Of My Employer <<<<!! "You’ll be Absolutely Free, Only if you Want to Be…"F.Zappa
Response:
: Acupressure points C6, K10, Sp6 and UB23 are useful. : These points may help for your condition. They were selected : them from a survey I have just completed of over 250 acupressure : authors for over 3200 conditions. Ninety-seven percent of the : 15,000 people I have worked with in the last six years have felt : some immediate benefit. If you want more information on how to : use these points and how they might help you send us your e-mail : address . : : Acu-Ki Institute Here is someone who claims to have treated 15,000 people in three years. Not only is that outrageous (and about as holistic an approach as a chain letter with some mantra in it), but the therapeutic approach is shotgun–a point soup regardless of actual pathogenesis. Ugh. —
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. >My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over > her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since >18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her >and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night >in her entire life~!) >Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we >have tried… >* Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and >retention of fluids. > * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. >* Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They >all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them >3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is >still wetting. > * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. > * Alarm clock set for 2am.
Hello! I read some of the other responses to your posting, and I have one that is actually much less scientific, but that worked wonderfully for my `little sister’ (a friend’s daughter) when she was 6-7 and a chronic bedwetter. She had gotten to the point where she was so embarrassed she wouldn’t let people in her room and wouldn’t spend the night at anyone’s house. This is what her mom did: She bought her a calendar and a packet of very lovely little stickers. And on any day that her daughter didn’t wet the bed, she got to put a sticker on that day in the calendar. The first month there were only two stickers, the second month, only about four, the third month…was almost completely covered with stickers! After that, no problem at all–although she did keep up with the stickers for several months, because they made her feel so good about herself! 
I know this is more of a psychological approach to the problem, but it really did work for my little sister. I don’t know enough about physical reasons for chronic bedwetting to advise you, so I won’t. But perhaps if your daughter can get to the point where she is able to go (just once) without wetting the bed, this might be a very good method of positive reinforcement. Anyway, best of luck! Lark
Response:
: : I am sorry I missed the earlier thread on this subject. I am new today. : : My Daughter turned 6 in April and is frustrated and embarrassed over : : her nightly bedwetting. She has been daytime potty trained since : : 18months and I am willing to wait it out…but it REALLY bothers her : : and I hate to see her try so hard with no success (Never a dry night : : in her entire life~!) : : Our Dr. has said there is nothing more to do. Here is what we : : have tried… : : * Increasing bladder size during the day through consumption and : : retention of fluids. : : * Restricting fluids after as early as 4pm. : : * Alarms, three different kinds of the type that sound when wet. They : : all have ME trained quite nicely thank you. And she does respond to them : : 3 or so times when they go off. The fact is…3 or so times she is : : still wetting. : : * Nasal DDVAPM? spray. : : * Alarm clock set for 2am. : Let me suggest one considerably more simple idea: your daughter may seem : abnormally warm. If she does, she may have a constitutional imbalance that : allows Heat to accumulate in her inner organs. This is very commonly seen in : adults. Consider this in your own experience. Some people feel a desire to : urinate, but ignore it. Why? The Heat accumulates in the Bladder, since it is : a ‘hollow organ,’ and that Heat stretches the bladder, causing the feeling of : wanting to micturate. HOWEVER, since there is not actually sufficient fluid : present to force us to stop and pee, since the mechanism of the bladder : sphincter is designed to work with the heaviness of water not with Heat : (which naturally rises rather than sinks). With a child, at night, the : control on the sphincter is weak to begin with, and the stirring of the : dreaming spirit (also due to Heat) moves the body’s Qi outwardly, carrying : whatever water is present with it. This is why restriction of fluids doesn’t : work. : What can be done? First off, this is the most common cause of enuresis, but : not the only one. If your child feels warm to the touch, if they have a damp : head at night, if they seem to become exhausted easily, especially in the : afternoon, or if they have hyperactivity, this is a reasonable diagnosis. : There are, then, a variety of ways to nourish the underlying Cooling force of : the body, and restore balance. It is also possible that this problem is due : to an underlying –lack–of the ordinary warmth of the body–this would be : seen in a child who was, naturally, always cold, not very active, prone to : colds, and hard to awaken in the morning. : There are very mild herbals that can be used to strengthen the : sphincter–certainly vastly safer than antihistamines and other drug : therapies. There is an OTC herbal formula available in Chinatown which is : called Golden Lock Tea (Jin Suo Gu Jing Wan, spelled Chin So Ku Ching on the : label). It is an astringent formula. It does not treat the underlying Heat : (or other cause), but rather simply strengthens the sphincter. It is a : possible starting point, and it also would be helpful if the diagnosis : involves the other common mechanisms. It should cost about $3. : — Acupressure points C6, K10, Sp6 and UB23 are useful. These points may help for your condition. They were selected them from a survey I have just completed of over 250 acupressure authors for over 3200 conditions. Ninety-seven percent of the 15,000 people I have worked with in the last six years have felt some immediate benefit. If you want more information on how to use these points and how they might help you send us your e-mail address . Acu-Ki Institute Rt. 2, Box 292-BB Mars Hill, NC. 28754
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